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Re: ULA-C (Was: Re: IPv6 will never fly: ARIN continues to kill it)

2007-09-20 06:06:34
Keith Moore <moore(_at_)cs(_dot_)utk(_dot_)edu> writes:

Thomas Narten wrote:
Keith Moore <moore(_at_)cs(_dot_)utk(_dot_)edu> writes:

  
Sooner or later, routing scalability will be a problem in IPv6.  When
that happens, each network will pick some means to decide which prefixes
get advertised within its network and which get filtered.   It's not
rocket science to guess that networks will favor their own customers,
the networks with which they have explicit agreements, and the networks
from which their customers derive the most value.   That probably puts
most ULAs and PIs fairly far down in the preference list.
    

Actually, my read of arguments coming from those opposed to ULAs is
that a good number of folk are worried that the some, if not many,
ULAs would be pretty high up on the preference list. I.e., those
hosting content that has become popular. And owners of those services
will simply go to ISPs and say "route this, or I'll find someone else
who will". And the sales and marketing departments of many ISPs will
fall over each other to be the first to say "why certainly we'd love
your business". And then the simple notion of filtering "all ULA
space" goes out the window and we have huge mess, that involves even
more pressures to accept more routes (despite the limitations on
technology), etc.

You may disagree with that scenario, but it is one that does concern
people in the operational community and is one reason why the proposal
is currently wedged.
  

Actually I don't disagree with the scenario at all; in fact I think it's
exactly what I envision.  I just don't see why it's such a horrible
thing.

Does "Balkanization of the Internet" mean anything to you?

What I see as happening when the owners of those services go to ISPs and
say "we'd like to have these ULAs be routed" is this:  The ISPs say
"Great, and we'd love to route them for you.  However, as we are sure
you know, routing table space is scarce, and routing updates are
expensive, and ULAs aren't aggregatable.  So it costs a lot to route
them, not just for us but for other ISPs also.  There are brokers who
lease routing table space in ISPs all over the world, and they'll
sublease a routing table slot for your ULA prefix - for a price.  But
you'll be competing with lots of services for a small number of routing
table entries, and they go to the highest bidders. "

With all due respect, what ivory tower are you living in?

I really think you need to go to an RIR meeting sometime and actually
_listen_ to what is said and have a _dialog_ with some of those
operators you have been so quick to dismiss in previous postings. You
might find that some of them are actually trying to keep the Internet
working and believe as much as you do in an open Internet for all...

They whole idea that we can have a market of routing slots and that
people will pay for routability is a nice idea, except that after 10+
years of talking about it, no one has even the remotest idea of how to
make it happen in practice.  Well, not unless we have a new world
order, ISPs (and the entire DFZ) become subject to significant
regulation where policies about routing slots can be set, etc. Is that
where you think we need to go? There are certainly parties that would
be thrilled to have the Internet move in that direction... But be careful
what you wish for...

Thomas

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