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RE: [73attendees] Is USAqualifiedfor2.3ofdraft-palet-ietf-meeting-venue-selection-criteria?

2008-11-19 12:49:10
You can find document statistics here which detail where the authors of
our life and blood come from:

http://www.arkko.com/tools/docstats

Take a look at the one for authors of current drafts here:

http://www.arkko.com/tools/stats/d-countryeudistr.html

Could not find the meeting participation statistics, although I am sure
they are lurking somewhere.

regards

Keith 

-----Original Message-----
From: 73attendees-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org 
[mailto:73attendees-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org] On Behalf Of Livingood, Jason
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:56 PM
To: Soininen Jonne (NSN FI/Espoo); ext Joel Jaeggli; Yi Zhao
Cc: 73attendees(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: Re: [73attendees] Is 
USAqualifiedfor2.3ofdraft-palet-ietf-meeting-venue-selection-criteria?

I recall stats from IETF 71 (which may be out of date).  I 
believe at that time, 48% of attendees were from the U.S.  
Next was Japan with 9%, then China with 5.7%.  If I recall 
correctly, this was a good number of attendees from China, 
but I do not know how that compared to IETF 72 or to IETF 73. 
 Is the visa issue for visitors from all countries coming to 
the U.S., or is this specific to Chinese citizens coming to the U.S.

Jason 

-----Original Message-----
From: ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org 
[mailto:ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org] 
On Behalf 
Of Soininen Jonne (NSN FI/Espoo)
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 3:28 PM
To: ext Joel Jaeggli; Yi Zhao
Cc: 'David Quigley'; 73attendees(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; 'Nicholas Weaver'; 
ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: Re: [73attendees] Is USA
qualifiedfor2.3ofdraft-palet-ietf-meeting-venue-selection-criteria?

Hi everybody,

In the IAOC, we have followed the visa situation for 
different nations 
closely. It is obviously in the benefit for the IETF to 
have all the 
participants that want and need to come to the IETF could also come.

Historically, the IETF community has indicated the preference of 
having a big part of the meetings in the North American 
region. This 
makes us often come to the USA. Traditionally a major part of the 
participation is from the North American region.

Of course, we should periodically check this policy, and 
also follow 
the visa situation very carefully.

I think it would be good for people that were trying to come to the 
IETF and couldn't to tell the IAD or me what happened.
Accurate data is very important.

Cheers,

Jonne.




On 11/18/08 10:08 PM, "ext Joel Jaeggli" <joelja(_at_)bogus(_dot_)com> 
wrote:

Yi Zhao wrote:
Based on my knowledge, for Chinese citizens there is no
any problem
to get the visa to other countries except US.

I know for a fact that several of your countrymen have 
had trouble 
obtaining visas for other recent IETF destinations.

 



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*From:* 73attendees-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org 
[mailto:73attendees-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org] *On Behalf Of 
*David Quigley
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:56 PM
*To:* Nicholas Weaver
*Cc:* 73attendees(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
*Subject:* Re: [73attendees] Is USA qualified 
for2.3ofdraft-palet-ietf-meeting-venue-selection-criteria?

 

Disclaimer: What I say here are my words and don't represent the 
views of my employer.

 

From what I see here the issues are mostly experienced 
by Chinese 
citizens. Most of the other countries have reciprocal visa
agreements
with the US. China however doesn't have that agreement
with Ireland,
Sweden, Japan, or the US. Were there similar problems 
with gaining 
entrance into Ireland? Will there be similar issues with gaining 
entrance into Sweden or Japan?

 

Dave

On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Nicholas Weaver 
<nweaver(_at_)icsi(_dot_)berkeley(_dot_)edu
<mailto:nweaver(_at_)icsi(_dot_)berkeley(_dot_)edu>> wrote:


On Nov 18, 2008, at 10:53 AM, Scott Brim wrote:

    Excerpts from Randy Bush on Tue, Nov 18, 2008 
10:39:57AM -0600:

    qdang(_at_)nist(_dot_)gov <mailto:qdang(_at_)nist(_dot_)gov> wrote:

    I believe our US government would like to grant visas
to as many
    people as they can. However, if anyone wants to attend
a meeting in
    the US is granted a visa to come here, then I can
imagine there will
    be 100 million visa applications for the IETF meeting
in CA next year
    alone.


    thank you for demonstrating so clearly the jingoistic
prejudice at the
    us government level that should preclude ietf being
held in the united
    states.


    How would you solve the problem?  Let 100 million
people in on false
    pretenses?  I'm not going to defend the behavior of
the US government,
    but I want you to admit that US immigration has a
difficult problem.
    Slinging labels around doesn't help.

 

Remember, the IETF is NOT special.  There are tens of 
thousands of 
conferences, and they are all pretty much
need-to-be-treated equal.  
If the US gave effectively carte blanch to conference
attendees, you
would have no immigration controls, period, as this 
would be a big 
enough loophole to fly an A380 through.

The Visa issue in the US is serious, but how many people
are really
affected by this?

We need hard data, because the notion of simply "not 
holding IETF 
meetings in a terrorist country" is not effective.

And if you want to do Visa issues as a criteria, you can 
strongly 
argue that all IETF meeting SHOULD be in a country where 
a visa is 
not required for travel for EU, US, Japanese, and Canadian
citizens.



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--
Jonne Soininen
Nokia Siemens Networks

Tel: +358 40 527 46 34
E-mail: jonne(_dot_)soininen(_at_)nsn(_dot_)com


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