Re: Tourist or business visa from US?

Hi Alexa, all,

In many countries, applying for a VISA different that the main purpose of
the travel to the country is illegal and could mean that you pay fines, get
deported, or even go to the jail.

In many countries, if you are doing both, a conference and tourism, the more
"expensive" or "complex" VISA is the one that applies.

As we are having this discussion in a public mailing list, it is obvious
that Chinese authorities are aware, up front, that some of us may be
cheating when obtaining a tourist VISA if the above statements apply, as I
guess, to Chine.

In my case, I can't and shouldn't go for a tourist VISA as I will not be
able to do sightseeing (already been in China before several occasions), but
still didn't got the LOI. So what I do ????

As said in a previous message this is NOT acceptable.

The only way it will be acceptable to go for tourist VISA is if we get a
written commitment from the Chinese authorities that IN OUR SPECIFIC CASE
(IETF attendance), it is ACCEPTABLE to go for the tourist VISA.

Otherwise, someone should be responsible for the expenses that may arise if
any participant is rejected by immigration when entering China because
applying for the wrong VISA.

So, either:
1) The secretariat is getting the Chinese immigrations written confirmation
about the validity of a TOURIST VISA for attending the IETF.
2) The secretariat or someone else is accepting the responsibility of the
costs/expenses/damages implied in any participant being deported or similar
when trying to enter China, if the reason is the wrong VISA type.

And please, we need this NOW, not tomorrow.

Last but not least, make sure that next time, for every IETF venue, we have
this information CLEAR up front. We will avoid many useless discussions in
the IETF mailing list and wasting time for many of us.

Thanks.

Regards,
Jordi

From: Alexa Morris <amorris(_at_)amsl(_dot_)com>
Reply-To: <amorris(_at_)amsl(_dot_)com>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:58:51 -0700
To: Ole Jacobsen <ole(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com>, Mary Barnes 
<mary(_dot_)ietf(_dot_)barnes(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com>
Cc: IETF Discussion <ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Subject: Re: Tourist or business visa from US?

After you  register for the meeting, you have the option to request a
letter of invitation. When you follow the link to request one, you are
presented with the following text, in red:

----
IMPORTANT: If you need a letter of invitation for the purposes of
obtaining a visa, you need an official letter from the IETF 79 host,
Tsinghua University.
? Please complete the LOI request form.
? You will automatically, via email, receive the standard IETF letter
of invitation (which you may find useful for internal company  
approval but which will not help you obtain a visa)
? In addition, the form output will also go to Tsinghua University,
so that the IETF 79 host can generate an official letter of invitation
to use in the visa application. The host will contact you separately
with your official letter of invitation.
-----

If you've already registered, you can refer to your registration
confirmation email for the embedded link that will allow you to
request the LOI.

On a separate note, when completing the form for your business visa,
you will need to provide contact information for a local 'business
contact'. This individual's contact information can be found here:
http://www.ietf.org/meeting/79/faq.html#Inviter
, which you can get to from either the visa FAQ page
(http://www.ietf.org/meeting/79/faq.html
) or the visa information page (http://www.ietf.org/meeting/79/
visa.html).

I think perhaps we provide more information about letters of
invitation earlier in the registration process, and I will add some
language to that effect.  And please feel free to suggest any other
way we can improve the information, and the way we are presenting it.

Alexa

On Aug 24, 2010, at 4:01 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote:


The form requires contact info for your business contact if you are
getting a business visa. Otherwise you can leave it blank.

I will let Alexa answer the other questions.

Ole


Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher,  The Internet Protocol Journal
Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972   Mobile: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail: ole(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com  URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj



On Tue, 24 Aug 2010, Mary Barnes wrote:

My understanding is that the only difference in paperwork is the
letter of
invitation. Is there any other additional paperwork that is
necessary?  I
would have thought that letters of invitation would be something
the host
had anticipated would be needed by the attendees - at least a
subset. The
wording on the meeting FAQ is somewhat nebulous as it notes that the
secretariat won't provide the letters and that one is needed from
the host,
but there's no information on the process to request one.  Do we
just send
an email to the individual listed as the contact for our visit?

Mary.


On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Ole Jacobsen <ole(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com> 
wrote:

There is no visa waiver program for China, at least not for any of
the
countries relevant to this discussion. You need a visa. Getting a
tourist one is "easier" in the sense that it requires less paperwork
and documentation. For a visit of duration ~ one week or so, there
should be no issues with getting a tourist visa.

Ole


Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher,  The Internet Protocol Journal
Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972   Mobile: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail: ole(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com  URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj



On Tue, 24 Aug 2010, Mary Barnes wrote:

U.S. customs is the least of my worries in this situation.  In
the 15

years

that I've been attending these sorts of meetings, I've never
needed a

visa

of any sort ahead of time.

Can you please point me to an official website that suggests that
there

is a

visa waiver program for us attending the IETF meeting in China?

Mary.

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 3:44 PM, Behcet Sarikaya
<behcetsarikaya(_at_)yahoo(_dot_)com>wrote:

I agree with Fred.

Many countries we go to attend IETF meetings would probably
require
"business"
visa but we go there as tourists on a visa waiver program. On
the way

back

as
far as US customs are concerned the purpose is business but US
customs
never
asks why you did not get a business visa.

Regards,

Behcet



----- Original Message ----

From: todd glassey <tglassey(_at_)earthlink(_dot_)net>
To: ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 12:38:00 PM
Subject: Re: Tourist or business visa from US?

On 8/24/2010 8:24 AM, Fred Baker wrote:

In the many times I have visited  China, I have gotten a
business

visa

once,

and it was seriously not worth the  effort.


I plan to get a tourist visa.


Except that now  the PRC is looking at the purpose of your trip
and

that

is to develop  intellectual properties so this is not a
personal but
specifically a business  trip.

Does Cisco's legal department condone that Fred?

Todd  Glassey


On Aug 24, 2010, at 7:43 AM, Andrew G. Malis  wrote:

Is there a consensus that a tourist visa is  sufficient to
attend

the

IETF from the US?

Thanks,
Andy
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