On 2011-04-14 06:19, Bob Hinden wrote:
Olaf,
On Apr 2, 2011, at 1:28 AM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
[as editor:]
It seems that the high order bit of this discussion circles
around the question on whether it a requirement for the
IETF Chair to have a voting position in order to
effectively perform oversight. Once we figured out where we
want to go with that we can think about delegation by the
chair vs appointment by the bodies and the implementation
details with respect to the trust.
For the record, I don't agree with this summary. That is, I
still question the basic assumption in the proposal. We have
"running code" in the IASA model and it appears to work
reasonable well. Not perfect, of course. In particular I
think that having the IETF chair, IAB chair, and ISOC
president as voting members of the IAOC (and IETF Trust) has
worked very well. It makes them an active part of decisions
the IAOC and IETF Trust are making and helps keep the IAOC
from getting disconnected from the community. It also makes
them share the responsibility for decisions by having their
vote be publicly recorded.
I agree. I think this responsibility should not be delegated.
It's fundamental to the success of the IETF (and the ISOC for
that matter - the IETF is a major source of ISOC's legitimacy).
The IAOC delegates execution to the IAD etc. - maybe the real
bug is that the IAOC itself needs to delegate more?
I also don't understand what the effect of the proposal is on
the IETF Trust. Currently all IAOC members are members of
the IETF Trust. They have to sign a letter accepting this
role. I don't think it can then be delegated.
It can't be delegated. However, a duly approved update to BCP101
can change the definition of the formal membership of the
IAOC, and that would automatically change the membership of
the Trust. An alternative would be a formal change to the Trust
Agreement, but since IANAL, I don't know whether a change to
allow delegation or proxies would be possible under the law of
the Commonwealth of Virginia, where the Trust was established.
Brian
Your draft focuses on one area (that is, reducing the burden
of these positions), but does not discuss any other aspects
of making this change. What might the negative aspects of
delegating this responsibility be? How will this be dealt
with?
Each of the positions (IETF Chair, IAB chair, ISOC President)
are different in the way they are selected and this effects
their ability to delegate their responsibility and who they
might delegate it to. For example, the IETF chair is
selected by the NOMCOM and one of his/her responsibilities is
to sit on the IAB, IAOC, and IETF Trust. The IAB chair is
selected by the IAB. The ISOC president is hired by the ISOC
Board of Trustees. Consequently, I think the authority to
delegate differs and they should be considered separately.
[as olaf:]
I agree that the IETF chair needs to have a good oversight
about what goes on in the IETF, to a lesser extend it is
good that the IAB has that oversight too (specifically with
respect to its chartered responsibilities) but I wonder if
a voting membership is the appropriate instrument.
Why not? It does appear to work.
I believe effective oversight depends on having the
appropriate high level information and having the
opportunity to timely inject information that is needed to
steer an outcome. An alternative method for sharing and
injecting is having regular meetings between the I* chairs
and the ISOC President/CEO. I believe that such meetings
are much more effective for the parties involved than being
exposed to all details.
Do we really need to have another regular meeting? Would
this give the I* chairs more authority than they have now?
Sort of an executive committee. Would these meetings be
public, have votes, have public minutes?
This only an illustration of an instrument, there may be
other instruments for oversight as well. But I do not think
the ex-officio membership is the only method.
It's not perfect but it is the one we have now and it is
working. We should only change it if we are sure that it
will improve the overall IASA operation. I am seriously
concerned about the current proposal.
Bob
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