Re: So, where to repeat? (was:Re: management granularity)

On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 10:34 -0600, Geoff Mulligan wrote:

I also would vote to return to Minneapolis again and again even
permanently.


Geoff





On Aug 6, 2012, at 2:32 PM, "Richard Shockey" <richard(_at_)shockey(_dot_)us>
wrote:

 


 

[RS> ] +1 and no employer ever argued that going to Minneapolis was
a boondoggle.



I imagine that few employers would ever argue that a trip to Hell would
be a boondoggle, either,
but that doesn't make it a good idea...

The Hilton in Minneapolis  of all the IETF meetings I’ve attended
has the most optimal layout of meeting rooms etc. 

 

 


If we were to choose one place in the U.S. to meet, Minneapolis is
the best choice IMHO.  It's very reasonably priced, easy for many to
get to and the hotel has adequate space for us (even back when we
had many more attendees).  Personally, the weather is not critical
to me, since I spend the vast majority of my time in the hotel
meeting rooms, so I'm very happy if we meet there in March and
November.   


 


Mary


 


On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
<Chris(_dot_)Dearlove(_at_)baesystems(_dot_)com> wrote:

I've never been to an IETF meeting where the plane fare has exceeded
the hotel cost for a week. Caveats to that are that I have mostly
gone for IETF recommended hotels, so may have missed particularly
cheap hotels, and that I have only been to North American and Europe
(but that statistic includes Vancouver and the even further away
western US cities down to San Diego). And of course I fly economy,
and it's much cheaper including a Saturday night in your trip, even
at the cost of an extra night in a hotel (at least it is from here).
An almost exception was Paris this year where I was staying fairly
cheaply, but that was a cost-shared trip between me and my employer,
and I didn't fly (I went by train - though that's not cheaper, just
better). Paris has cheap(er) hotels and a metro I understand, so I
felt less location constrained.



--
Christopher Dearlove
Senior Principal Engineer, Communications Group
Communications, Networks and Image Analysis Capability
BAE Systems Advanced Technology Centre
West Hanningfield Road, Great Baddow, Chelmsford, CM2 8HN, UK
Tel: +44 1245 242194 |  Fax: +44 1245 242124
chris(_dot_)dearlove(_at_)baesystems(_dot_)com | http://www.baesystems.com

BAE Systems (Operations) Limited
Registered Office: Warwick House, PO Box 87, Farnborough Aerospace
Centre, Farnborough, Hants, GU14 6YU, UK
Registered in England & Wales No: 1996687


-----Original Message-----


From: Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon)
[mailto:nurit(_dot_)sprecher(_at_)nsn(_dot_)com]
Sent: 06 August 2012 15:07
To: Dearlove, Christopher (UK); Daniele Ceccarelli; Andrew Sullivan;
ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: RE: So, where to repeat? (was:Re: management granularity)


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When you are not close (time), flight cost may become higher in the
priority (over hotem)....
Flying to Vancouver for me for example is the most expensive
trip....even though the city is amazing and the host was wonderful!

-----Original Message-----
From: ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org 
[mailto:ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org] On Behalf
Of ext Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2012 4:56 PM
To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Andrew Sullivan; ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: RE: So, where to repeat? (was:Re: management granularity)

Dublin's problem was that the venue was isolated from the city. This
has also been the case with e.g. San Diego. (I'm assuming no
personal car.) Contrast with Minneapolis (and several other places)
where you were right in the city. Being in a city is better for
lunch and dinner options, taking a break to go to a bookshop (or to
buy something you forgot to bring) and so on. (I'm deliberately not
including tourism here.)

However at the moment my priorities to make being able to attend
possible would be time (so the closer to me the better - I realise
that's impossible globally), cost (hotel first, flight second, rest
is noise) and the ability to plan ahead to only attend part of the
week. This is the current economic reality. Dublin actually scores
quite well on those for me.

--
Christopher Dearlove
Senior Principal Engineer, Communications Group
Communications, Networks and Image Analysis Capability
BAE Systems Advanced Technology Centre
West Hanningfield Road, Great Baddow, Chelmsford, CM2 8HN, UK
Tel: +44 1245 242194 |  Fax: +44 1245 242124
chris(_dot_)dearlove(_at_)baesystems(_dot_)com | http://www.baesystems.com

BAE Systems (Operations) Limited
Registered Office: Warwick House, PO Box 87, Farnborough Aerospace
Centre, Farnborough, Hants, GU14 6YU, UK
Registered in England & Wales No: 1996687


-----Original Message-----
From: ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org 
[mailto:ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org] On Behalf
Of Daniele Ceccarelli
Sent: 06 August 2012 13:24
To: Andrew Sullivan; ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: RE: So, where to repeat? (was:Re: management granularity)

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Dublin panned? I thought it was one of the best venues and locations
of the last meetings.

What about Italy or Spain? I've never heard about an IETF in Italy.
I'm ok with meetings outside Italy since i like traveling very much,
but i was wondering why it has never been taken into account in the
past meetings. Is it expensive? I think Italy and Spain are much
cheaper than France, UK or Sweden, aren't they?

BR
Daniele

-----Original Message-----
From: ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org 
[mailto:ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org] On
Behalf Of Andrew Sullivan
Sent: lunedì 6 agosto 2012 14.06
To: ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: So, where to repeat? (was:Re: management granularity)

On Sun, Aug 05, 2012 at 11:58:19AM -0700, Dave Crocker wrote:

enough merely to have excellent staff.  We need to go back to the
better places and benefit from the learning curve.  This

doesn't mean

"no new venues" but it means fewer.


As a practical matter, may I ask about which venues you want
to return to?  I get your argument in principle, but it seems
to me that there has been quite a lot of complaining in the
past.  The one factor that seems to me most likely to reduce
complaints -- weather -- is evidently beyond the Secretariat's
or IAOC's control.

People seem inclined to return to the Hyatt in Vancouver,
elevators notwithstanding.  We're going to do that.  (I don't
understand why the previous Vencouver venue was less desirable
-- to me, these venues were very similar, and not very far
apart.  I note, however, that the previous two Vancouver
visits were near the end of the year, when it rains all the
time in Vancouver.)

People complained at length about the venue in Paris, so I
presume it's out.

Some people complained about the hotel room prices and travel
expense in Taipei, though I heard remarks that it was a good venue.
Should we try to return there?

People complained in advance about getting to Québec, although
afterwards I heard lots of good noises about that venue.  I
note that the weather was great.  Should we try to return?

I don't recall much complaining about the Prague venue in
2011, which was striking to me because very little seemed
different to me compared to our first visit there.  Perhaps
this is evidence of the "tuning"
you suggest (ensuring the water bottles were plastic, for

instance).

But I note the weather was excellent.

Beijing?  I guess Maastricht is out. Anaheim (FWIW, I thought
that was an example of a terrible location, but many people
seemed happy with it)?  Hiroshima?  Stockholm?  San Francisco
(we thought the crime at Paris was bad, yet didn't complain
about being smack up against the Tenderloin)?  Or there's the
old standby, Minneapolis; perhaps we could do it in March.
The Dublin venue was panned by large numbers of people.
Philadelphia, people complained about expense.  Chicago, too
(combined with hotel renovations).

That gets us back through 2007.  Which of the venues do you
think we should return to, to which we already haven't
returned or planned to return?  And why?

For what it's worth, I would not complain about returning to
any of those venues; I personally had good meetings at all of
them except Hiroshima, which I missed due to other
commitments.  That includes both Maastricht and Dublin, which
were both apparently trials for large numbers of others.

Best,

A

--
Andrew Sullivan
ajs(_at_)anvilwalrusden(_dot_)com


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