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Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director

2013-03-05 08:58:52
Hi Tom

On 03/05/2013 12:43 PM, t.p. wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Stiemerling" <martin(_dot_)stiemerling(_at_)neclab(_dot_)eu>
To: "t.p." <daedulus(_at_)btconnect(_dot_)com>
Cc: "Sam Hartman" <hartmans-ietf(_at_)mit(_dot_)edu>; "IETF" 
<ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 11:13 AM


Hi Tom,

On 03/05/2013 11:38 AM, t.p. wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Hartman"
<hartmans-ietf(_at_)mit(_dot_)edu> To: "Mary Barnes"
<mary(_dot_)ietf(_dot_)barnes(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com> Cc: "Sam Hartman"
<hartmans-ietf(_at_)mit(_dot_)edu>; "IETF" <ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org> Sent: 
Monday, March
04, 2013 8:26 PM

"Mary" == Mary Barnes <mary(_dot_)ietf(_dot_)barnes(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com>
writes:

Mary> And, I continue to support Sam's position as well.  To me
the
Mary> question at hand is whether it will do more harm to fill the
Mary> position with someone that doesn't have the specific
expertise
Mary> that his being sought than to leave the position unfilled.
Mary> Having dealt with the exact same issue when I was Nomcom
Mary> chair, I thoroughly understand the issue at hand.  And, Mary>
certainly, there was a lot of criticism of the choice of the Mary>
Nomcom I chaired, but we really are between a rock and a
hard
Mary> place yet again.

I think it would be really useful to get someone like Lars or the
chair
of the tcpm working group to comment on how much congestion
control experience we're talking about as a requirement.

Not much, based on my experience:-(

The I-Ds I have been closely involved with have typically drawn
DISCUSS from Security and Transport and while those from Security
have usually given me pause, enlightened me, made me do my homework,
those for Transport seem to be saying that you must not give any
encouragement to the use of UDP and nothing more than that.  I do

Can you clarify about what point of time you're talking about? There
are
multiple instances of the IESG and also the TSV ADs and handling of
the
issue might have changed over the years.

The recent instance is good with using UDP, but the draft needs to
clearly state how it addresses congestion control and that is the
point
where a lot of draft fail.

This has been also the case in the past, when I remember right.

Martin

I am looking back over a number of years (eg SNMP, syslog).  A
perspective over many years, in any area, is that some problems become
solved, with changes in technology.  What is post graduate research
becomes the next generation's seventh grade homework.

Congestion control is essential else we have congestive collapse, which
I have had to find and fix in my time; but I am positing that for most
of the IETF, congestion control is a solved topic and little expertise
is needed, in contrast to Security which is for ever changing (SHA2 or
SHA3 or will MD5 still suffice?).  Yes, a high-level of skill exists,
especially in the ICCRG (and I struggle to follow it) but I wonder if we
need that skill in the IETF ie a basic familiarity with what TCP offers
and UDP does not will serve most of our work.

I have to disagree here and recommend to take a look to the RMCAT working group. Congestion control isn't completely done and there are always new or changed challenges.

  Martin


Tom Petch

track TCPM and ICCRG and have some insight into the sophistication
of
modern control mechanisms, but outside those groups, the application
of congestion control seems basic; TCP and its (friendly)
derivatives
OK, anything else not OK.

Also a very shortened view.

However, TCP and derivatives are well understood in large-scale
deployments, e.g., in the Internet, others are too, e.g., SCTP, while
some aren't.


    Martin


Tom Petch


When I read Lars's messages, I'm not actually sure he and I are
disagreeing.

There's a lot of things it could mean for the IESG to have
congestion control expertise.



--
martin(_dot_)stiemerling(_at_)neclab(_dot_)eu

NEC Laboratories Europe
NEC Europe Limited
Registered Office:
Athene, Odyssey Business Park, West End  Road, London, HA4 6QE, GB
Registered in England 2832014




--
martin(_dot_)stiemerling(_at_)neclab(_dot_)eu

NEC Laboratories Europe
NEC Europe Limited
Registered Office:
Athene, Odyssey Business Park, West End  Road, London, HA4 6QE, GB
Registered in England 2832014