At 11:43 10-11-2013, Melinda Shore wrote:
I opted to sit the discussion out because I don't see a way
to move forward on improving policies while still respecting
the IETF consensus process - there's just too much disagreement
that there's a problem. I do think there's stuff that can be
done at an individual level and I've been impressed with this
year's nomcom. I'd *love* to see a little more risk-taking
in the choice of working group chairs, and mentoring once we
bring on someone who's inexperienced and possibly somewhat
clueless. Have apprentice working group chairs, if it comes
to that. Intellectual leadership comes from the set of
people who write influential drafts and the set of people who
write influential reviews, and perhaps there's some way we
can figure out to work with people to improve their drafts and/or
improve their reviews (I've been trying to do that a bit). I
think there are a few things that can be done on an individual,
voluntary basis that won't require getting buy-in from people who
still regret women getting the vote.
My reading of the discussion was that it pointed
to a problem. The short answer I would give is
that I don't know a way to move forward. The
long answer is that there are likely ways to make
some progress. The little risk-taking (see
above) is a good idea in my opinion. I agree
that there are a few things that can be done on
an individual voluntary basis. There can be
higher returns that what can be done through a process.
I don't know if the diversity group has opted not to work
on gender issues because it's just too contentious, because
regional issues are easier, because they're planning to work
on it later, because of lack of interest, ... but it's pretty
striking.
Speaking for myself, I picked up some of the
issues on which I could deliver (with the help of
a few other people). I might have picked up more
issues if there was interest. The regional issues are not easier.
but there is this association between the word "greybeards" and the
notion of senior, wiser people who provide elder leadership, so maybe
There are two definitions for "greybeards", "an
old man", or "a large stoneware jug for holding
spirits". The latter has something to do with
the mobility of the earth and the immobility of
the sun according to the common opinion of modern
astronomers. There were a lot people providing
leadership who did not agree with that. I
conclude that it is better not to be wise. :-)
At 12:34 10-11-2013, Ted Lemon wrote:
misogyny in the IETF. If it's happening,
that's really disappointing. I tend to think a
lot of resistance to action is more of the form
of the naïveté that comes from privileged view,
rather than active opposition. If that's not the case, I would like to
Yes.
At 12:44 10-11-2013, l(_dot_)wood(_at_)surrey(_dot_)ac(_dot_)uk wrote:
Or because they're all men?
See http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/diversity/current/msg00095.html
At 12:50 10-11-2013, manning bill wrote:
Na ? they are all -OLD-?.
It would be the council of the elderly then. :-)
Regards,
-sm