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Re: Author disclosures and conflict of interest

2014-04-25 15:00:43
I’m going to presume your reference to the National Academies is specific to 
the United States of America.
Since participation in the IETF is from a global perspective,  this begs the 
question of the existence of ethical
rules for engineers & scientists in other jurisdictions, and where they do 
exist, are they in harmony with US 
standards?


/bill
Neca eos omnes.  Deus suos agnoscet.

On 25April2014Friday, at 9:52, Lawrence Rosen <lrosen(_at_)rosenlaw(_dot_)com> 
wrote:

Phillip Hallam-Baker asked:
So there is only one set of ethical rules for scientists and engineers then?

Of course not. But before you reject the ethical rules proposed by the 
National Academies (of Science, Engineering, Medicine, and the National 
Research Council), you ought to have a better argument than "I don't 
wanna...."

This attitude, unfortunately, diminishes respect for IETF and its standards. 
And nothing confirms that disrespect better than the almost complete silence 
here whenever topics such as this are brought up. It is as if IETF standards 
are generated in an ethical vacuum where "caveat emptor" prevails. 

/Larry


-----Original Message-----
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker [mailto:hallam(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 1:54 PM
To: Lawrence Rosen
Cc: IETF
Subject: Re: Author disclosures and conflict of interest

So there is only one set of ethical rules for scientists and engineers then?

Thats news to me.

On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Lawrence Rosen 
<lrosen(_at_)rosenlaw(_dot_)com> wrote:
Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
Like the question 'are you a spy' which they used to ask when people 
entered the US, I fail to see how this helps with the NSA/FSB/PLA/etc 
problem.

The question actually is: Do you agree to the ethical rules for scientists 
and engineers?

By the way, those ethical rules require only disclosure, not recusal.

/Larry


-----Original Message-----
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker [mailto:hallam(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com]
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2014 2:05 PM
To: lrosen(_at_)rosenlaw(_dot_)com
Cc: IETF Discussion Mailing List
Subject: Re: Author disclosures and conflict of interest

Like the question 'are you a spy' which they used to ask when people entered 
the US, I fail to see how this helps with the NSA/FSB/PLA/etc problem.

The people who are being paid to subvert the standards aren't going to say.

They might not even know that the objective is subversion.


Like many IETF participants I have substantial financial interests in 
several Internet companies besides my employer. Am I meant to put those in a 
blind trust?

And even if I did all that people would still assume that I am working as an 
agent of the New World Order. Though quite how the other folk on the 
conference call worked out that the helicopter is black still puzzles me.


On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Lawrence Rosen 
<lrosen(_at_)rosenlaw(_dot_)com> wrote:
I’ve been skimming recent threads  on this list relating to work done 
(or not done) at IETF and was reminded of this from Science Magazine:



Authorship Form and Conflict-of-Interest Statement

To meet its responsibility to readers and to the public to provide 
clear and unbiased scientific results and analyses, Science believes 
that manuscripts (including Brevia, Essays, Perspectives, Policy 
Forums, Reports, Research Articles, Reviews, and Viewpoints) should 
be accompanied by clear disclosures from all authors of the nature 
and level of their contribution to the article, their understanding 
regarding the obligation to share data and materials, and any 
affiliations, funding sources, or financial holdings that might raise 
questions about possible sources of bias. Before manuscript 
acceptance, therefore, authors will be asked to sign an 
authorship/conflict-of-interest form. Specific information will be sent to 
most authors at the time of manuscript revision.

Authorship Form and Statement of Conflicts of Interest [PDF]



Part IV regarding “Conflict of Interest” is particularly relevant to 
standards organizations such as IETF. Such a disclosure requirement 
would further encourage everyone to trust and implement IETF specifications.



This document follows the recommendations in On Being a Scientist: A 
Guide to Responsible Conduct in Research, The National Academies 
Press, Third Edition (2009).



/Larry



Lawrence Rosen

Rosenlaw & Einschlag (www.rosenlaw.com)

3001 King Ranch Road, Ukiah, CA 95482

Cell: 707-478-8932   Fax: 707-485-1243





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Website: http://hallambaker.com/




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