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Re: PGP security models, was Summary of IETF LC for draft-ietf-dane-openpgpkey

2015-09-23 17:00:40
"John" == John R Levine <johnl(_at_)taugh(_dot_)com> writes:

    >> I think this is OK. That's what you get for using a domain who
    >> does this sort of thing as your email provider.

    John> Right.  But again, if I'm trying to find your key, I have no
    John> way to know how sleazy your mail provider is, so I have no way
    John> to tell whether to trust the keys they publish.

Yeah, but  I believe for most users the only reasonable default for
things you get from the key servers is don't trust without additional
evidence.
For most users for most domains, I believe a reasonable default for this
dane record is trust if you otherwise would have sent plaintext mail.


    >> I do consider this proposal's handling of this case superior to
    >> the key servers.

    John> A key you get from the key servers might be real or might be
    John> bogus.  A key you get through DANE might be real or might be
    John> bogus.  What's the difference?  

It's all in the probabilities.
I'm making a judgment based on how I've seen PGP used over the last 20
years or so.
It seems like other people I believe to have used PGP a lot are making
the same judgment on this proposal.
Yes, that's appeal to authority.  

The only thing I can think to do beyond this is consider the sorts of
examples you're bringing up.
You think they argue that the key servers and this proposal are the
same.
I think they are interesting experiments that validate the utility of
this trust model in interesting cases.

    John> A key from DANE implicitly has
    John> an endorsement from the domain, but a key from key servers can
    John> have endorsements via WoT signatures.  In each case. unless
    John> you know the endorser, the endorsement is useless.

There we disagree.
I think implicit endorcement from the domain is valuable even if I don't
know much about the domain.

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