On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 12:52:10PM +0530, Vinayak Hegde wrote:
Two wrongs don't make a right.
?
My primary concern was not the visa process but the missing explicit
description when you can use one vs. the other option.
Here is what most of the non-US,
non-European crowd goes through. I think contributors from Africa and
Middle East have it worst. Just another perspective from an Indian
contributor.
As an Indian, getting a Visa for US is a much more painful experience
(where you have to line up *outside the embassy* in the sun for one
day just to give your fingerprints before the application process
starts). The Schengen is just as painful. My Visa application for
Berlin (Germany) meeting was rejected because the embassy said it was
"forged". They did not bother to contact the person listed on the
letter. The Appeals process was long and it took some heroic effort
from the hosts (Deustche Telecom) to get the Visa. You cannot even
make a visa application without booking all accommodation _and_ air
travel. I had to submit 200+ pages worth of documentation (Which
included 3 years of my tax filings and company tax history) just to
get them to consider it. Similar story for a Vancouver meeting where
my visa was rejected.
As a german citizen, this really annoys me, and i would be happy to pay
from my own pocket some amount (eg: $100) for every IETF meeting if the
IETF would create a fund from such money with which they could finance
some staff that would start raising formal disciplinary action complaints
against such bureaucrats, send letters to the ministries of tourism, try
to bring those stories to the newspapers, lobby with EU politicians and the
like.
Btw: was sitting beside another german flying to the US one time, who
told me that 7 years back when they had in the US the visa waiver, the
airline had misplaced his exit paper, after which USCIS had put him into the
bucket of "overstayed visa" and since then he has to go through secondary
inspection every time he travels to US, which of course makes him miss
almost every normal connection inside US (takes 2 hours or so). All because
of bureaucracy hickup that USCIS is unwilling to fix. I am just mentioning
that because most folks here on the list with USA/CAN/EU passports feel
like they're safe from most of the stupid US/EU bueaucracy, but thats
by far not guaranteed. Most problems come from errors in the system that
nobody can analyze or fix because it all so security sensitive (they say).
BTW I don't doubt your story for an Indian Visa. Things have gotten
much better after a recent change in Government in the last 1.5 years.
I think what helped make it better in 2015 vs. 2014 was the introduction
of the 10 year Visa for US citizens in 2014 that took the bulkload of
applications off the table in 2015. Of course as a german passport holder
i only get 6 months, and given stories like yours i easily understand
why India is P.O'ed by Germany.
So you might have asked when they were just introduced and were
trialing the e-visa stuff and there might not have been clear
instructions trickled down to the rank-and-file of the immigration
dept.
I think it's more fundamental: Visas are applied by an outsourced
company who is telling you that they can not give you legal advise.
And i am not sure how i could even try to talk to someone from the
embassy directly. But yes, nothing compared to your experiences. Nothing
i'd spend money on to fight back against.
I think if the IETF is serious about getting more diverse opinions and
contributions, they should hold meetings in non-US, non-European
location, rants notwithsanding.
Yes, see above: if we as IETF take visa policy explicitly into account,
i'd love that see being appropriately made public to have also an impact.
Cheers
Toerless
-- Vinayak
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Toerless Eckert, eckert(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com