Hi,
For quite a while I have been asking whoever was willing to pay attention
whether the good-ole e2e principle is no longer applicable, and we should start
to formulate something like a c2c (where c would stand for “cloud”) or similar
principle, and think about how to preserve the desired properties of Internet
communication in its context.
Be goode,
On 17 Mar 2016, at 11:19 , Varma, Eve (Nokia - US)
<eve(_dot_)varma(_at_)nokia(_dot_)com<mailto:eve(_dot_)varma(_at_)nokia(_dot_)com>>
wrote:
Hi,
This brings to mind the Aug. 2000 paper, "Rethinking the design of the
Internet: The end to end arguments vs. the brave new world" (D. D. Clark, M.
Blumenthal).
Best regards,
Eve
-----Original Message-----
From: ietf [mailto:ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org] On Behalf Of EXT Stefan
Winter
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 6:12 AM
To: Josh Howlett; ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org<mailto:ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Subject: Re: ietf.org<http://ietf.org> end-to-end principle
Hi,
But the fact that these solutions exist points to a need unmet by existing e2e
approaches. Someone in IETF operations had presumably thought out their
requirements when this service was procured. Embedding e2e within a solution
that satisfies those same operational requirements sounds like a potential IETF
WG charter in the making.
I'm sure that the situation as it is now is the result of planning; this
solution satisfies a need.
For the IETF as an SDO, this should be a lesson learnt then: we keep developing
protocols for an end-to-end world. The world out there is not end-to-end
though. (*)
And then people in the IETF wonder why the IETF is becoming more and more
irrelevant to the world out there.
It might be time to admit that end-to-end is not the one noble thing to aspire
to; but instead to accept deployed reality and develop protocols which are of
relevance in the presence of proxies, load-balancers, and more.
Is that a job for "just" a working group? I don't know; it more feels like a
cross-cutting job for the entire organisation.
Greetings,
Stefan Winter
(*) Since we all love anecdotes: I remember a Minneapolis IETF when a bar BOF
had the topic of "proxy threats" which aimed to create a document stating why
proxies (be it web, RADIUS, ...) are evil and should be avoided. Fast forward
to this discussion here, and I have to wonder when exactly I slipped into this
parallel universe.
Josh.
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