Hi Marc,
Thanks for your clearly put overview. The problem is that "you as the
domain owner" is an isolated and comparatively rare case. Most people
sending emails do so using their ISP's domain. They do not own the
domain. If they choose to use 3rd party tools or products, or to send
from elsewhere, or to run their own outgoing servers, SPF is going to
punish them (*and* the 3rd party providers - which is *me* - which is
why I am against SPF)
It is unreasonable to expect people to switch ISP, and vast numbers of
users do not have this luxury (eg: think ADSL or cable or satellite
users around the world where there is little/no service competition),
and I think it is rude to develop a standard that is going to force
people to do this (see the first line at
http://spf.pobox.com/newheader.html for my definition of "force")
ISP's *can* choose to implement this as a "block" or as a "notify"
system, but "block" is trivially easy, and "notify" is ghastly and
difficult for most ISP MTA's, so you can guess which one they're going
to pick...
Kind Regards,
Chris Drake
Wednesday, January 14, 2004, 12:26:06 AM, you wrote:
MA> Chris,
MA> Maybe I can help you by presenting my simplistic view of SPF.
MA> SPF allows me, as a domain owner, to tell the internet community how they
MA> can determine than an email is actually being sent by my domain. If they
MA> receive an email that fails the SPF check, then it did NOT come from me. If
MA> the recipient email-server-operator decides to then discard that email, that
MA> is their choice.
MA> And I believe that it is the ISP's perogative what policies to implement to
MA> run their business, contrary to what the users want. For example, in my
MA> area, most of the broadband ISP's will NOT give out fixed IP addresses or
MA> allow a user to run their own 'server' at home. (Inbound http, smtp, etc.)
MA> The good thing for me is that there is one ISP that I've found that gives
MA> out fixed IP's and doesn't care what I run on my IP (subject to decency and
MA> abuse provisions, I'd suspect). Similarly, I'm sure that you will be able
MA> to find an ISP (or just an email provider) that won't do SPF checks. As a
MA> user of your ISP, you are subject to the policies that they put into effect.
MA> Marc
MA> -----Original Message-----
MA> From: Chris Drake [mailto:christopher(_at_)pobox(_dot_)com]
MA> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 8:14 AM
MA> To: Rik van Riel
MA> Subject: Re[3]: [spf-discuss] Lawsuits, angry business users, and SPF
MA> stupidity.
MA> Hi Rik,
MA> Take a look at mailblocks then - IMHO it's the best implementation
MA> available for anti-spam. SPF isn't designed for spam blocking, so if
MA> you're looking for an anti-spam SPF is not going to solve much.
MA> Unfortunately, for technical reasons, I can't myself use mailblocks,
MA> but everyone I know who uses it swears by it.
MA> There's a few other things that are similar too - I forget the names
MA> of them, though I've been asked to authenticate by them a few times.
MA> And of course - since it's user-to-user, nobody who isn't looking for
MA> spam blocking gets affected (like all the users of an ISP for
MA> example).
MA> Kind Regards,
MA> Chris Drake
MA> Wednesday, January 14, 2004, 12:00:02 AM, you wrote:
RvR>> On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Chris Drake wrote:
You should be working on a standard that USERS can ALWAYS opt out of.
RvR>> If you want such a standard, maybe you should implement it ?
RvR>> I am going to focus my efforts on SPF, until something better
RvR>> comes along.
RvR>> Rik
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