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Re: Response

1994-01-25 10:08:57

  From: Masataka Ohta 
  Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 13:09:52 JST

  As I already know that I can't display Japanese text with UNICODE without
  some profiling information, you don't have to do so.

I disagree.  You *can* display Japanese text without any profiling information.
You have utterly failed to provide even a shred of evidence for this assertion
you are so fond of repeating.  If I may offer a quote from a more official
Japanese source regarding the use of 10646 (and by extension, of Unicode),
perhaps it will help settle the minds of readers who have been unnecessarily
alarmed by your unfounded statements:

The following are excerpts from the paper "ISO/IEC 10646-1 in Japan" by
Prof. Koji Shibano of Tokyo International University,  who, according to
my understanding, is relating the official position of JISC:

1. Countermeasure by Japan to the 10646

"Strenuous effort[s] have been made in JIS-related works, aiming at the
preparation of the draft of the JIS standards corresponding to ISO/IEC
10646 Universal Multiple-octe[t] Coded Character Set. Japan has been
assuming a negative attitude toward the 10646. However, such an attitude
by Japan is not preferrable when taking into account the efforts for
the internationalization of Japan in other fields, such as the character
code and the consistency with the domestic character code problems.

"Hereafter in Japan, the dissemination of the 10646 is to be positively
promoted and the successive movement is promoted from the existing JIS
code to the JIS of the 10646. At the same time, full efforts should be
made in the expansion and improvement of the 10646 in ISO activities."

2.3 Problems with the present JIS code

[Discussion of various problems of JIS C6226-1978 and JIS X0208-1990.]

"As a result [of these problems], the efforts made by JIS for a long time
could not establish an effective standard, but they promoted confusion."

"The only solution for such situations is believed to be promotion of the
positive movement toward the 10646."

3. CJK Unified Ideograph

"The SC2 Japan Domestic Committee has opposed the CJK unified ideograph for
several reasons, however, it is now considering supporting this CJK unified
ideograph. The evidence of such ideas are derived from the fact that the
reasons agreeable to the CJK unified ideograph can be found, while the reasons
opposing cannot be found. A variety of opposing opinions exist in Japan, but
any one of the are incorrect."

4.2 Problems of unified ideograph

[discussion of minor problems such as lack of classification according to
frequency of use, lack of correlation between frequency and code position that
would facilitate more compact representation in a UTF or other transformation
of UCS, single arrangment order, identification (name) of unified ideographs
by code point, inclusion of source separation characters in main CJK ideo-
graph space rather than in compatibility zone.]

"There are several problems in the unified ideograph [summarized above] but
they never lead to a complete error such as non-unification."

5. Technologgy to use the 10646

"It is believed that the 10646 will occupy the position of the Bible in the
future ISO code systems in place of the conventional Bible [i.e., ISO 646]
as the new number indicates."


I haven't included the full text here which does raise certain issues with
regard to unified CJK ideographs and other aspects of 10646. However, none
of these issues require that 10646 be used with profiling information in
order to use it for Japanese information processing.  Furthermore, the
tone of the text which I include above paints a rather stark difference
to the viewpoint you have consistently advocated, a difference which makes
me suspect you aren't a party to the consensus that appears to have formed
in official, and, may I say, better informed, JISC circles.

I would suggest that you are pushing your own personal agenda here rather
than offering factual information about 10646/Unicode.  Your ICODE system,
which you offer as a potential solution to certain issues you perceive to
be problematic, is really nothing more than a rich text system based on top
of 10646.  While I consider that it may be useful as a potential rich
text encoding based on 10646, it is not a viable plain text encoding.

If at any time you wish to provide some real evidence that 10646/Unicode
is not capable of processing Japanese without profiling information or
rich text information, then I would be eager to hear the details.  However,
until then I cannot accept your claims and I would urge others to do the

Glenn Adams

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