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Re: making mail traceable (was Re: Received header Considered Pathetic)

2004-01-17 10:47:32

Keith Moore wrote:

I'm not quite ready to abandon it, primarily for practical reasons:
+ it's already widely implemented
+ it's already used for spam tracking

Any alternative will require substantial time to pick up enough momentum
to be useful.


that's true of any new information that might be provided regardless of whether it uses a new header field or if the new information somehow gets stuffed into the received field. the point is, the existing information is unreliable and inadequate.

Use of HELO/EHLO names is unreliable and inadequate. Use of domain names or
domain literals isn't new information.

What I'm after is a means of automating tracing for abuse complaints.


me too. but I don't see how we can do that without providing non-repudiation. otherwise it becomes easy to DoS somebody by forging mail as if it were from them and generating lots of complaints about it.

Tracing back through Received fields, after my ISP's fields are accounted for, the host named (if named reliably, i.e. not via HELO/EHLO name) as the source
is one of:
a) the sender's machine
b) one of the sender's ISPs' machines
c) an open relay
d) a resender, such as a mailing list expander

In case a or b, a complaint to the sender's ISP is appropriate; in case c the operator of the open relay is essentially the spammer's accomplice and should be the recipient
of a complaint.  In case d, one can trace back further.

nor do I think it's sufficient to get ISPs to terminate spammers. what we need is a way to find out if a message is spam (or if the sender is a spammer) after the message is sent, but before it is delivered or read.

Tracing after the fact need not be the only tool used to fight spam; however it is a valuable tool and its value could be increased by making it more amenable to automation.

it's pretty hard to behave in the community interest when Big Brother is twisting your arm.

Yes, if Big Brother is forcing you to behave against the community interest. I know of no coercion against ISPs that would prevent an ISP from enforcing its own terms of
service regarding unsolicited bulk email, do you?


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