ietf-asrg
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Re: [Asrg] RE:ASGR 8a Use of certificates

2003-04-08 18:54:12
At 4:22 PM -0600 4/8/03, Vernon Schryver wrote:
 > >How do I trace a junk pre-recorded phone message that asks me to
 >record my number or push some touch tone keys to be called back?
 >I received many of those before July, 2002.

 No to both.  So we're back to an ascertainable fact that neither of
 have access to.

I hope you're not saying I'm lying about having received such faxes
or pre-recorded phone calls, but I don't understand what else you mean.

No, not at all. My apologies. What I meant was that this comes down to a question of whether faxes and calls like that are common or rare, and we don't have the necessary information to make that decision. As with the email spam problem, we're a bunch of blind men around an elephant. Everyone's operating off of what shows up in their inbox.


 > I'm going to assert that most pre-recorded calls contain address
 > information that allows you to track them down.  After all, they want
 > the user to contact them.  Why would they obscure that information?
 >
 > Does that argument sound familiar?
 >
 > Now I'm going to take it back, and state that while I believe that, I
 > have no evidence other than the phone spam I've received to back it
 > up.

I don't understand the point you're making.  I agree many pre-recorded

Sorry. Same point as above, except with the added irony that I'm basically making the same claim about faxes that you've been making about email--that most people don't hide their contact information. You think it's equally true of both, I think it's more true of faxes. But without information we're pretty much stuck there.

phone calls contain addresses.  Political ads are the most consistent
exception.

Yes, but they are exempt from the pre-recorded message laws as well. So we're pretty much screwed there.

Again, in a sense there is no such thing as untraceable spam.  You
always have the IP address of the SMTP client and you can always go
after its owner, even if the owner is a retail ISP and its clue-free
customer using a proxy.  I agree that for a given amount of effort,

Am I missing something? I didn't think there was a traceable original IP in open-proxy spam. (The nice thing about my current role is that I'm *not* the one doing all the header analysis, and open proxies came into major play after I stopped looking at headers.)
--
Kee Hinckley
http://www.messagefire.com/          Junk-Free Email Filtering
http://commons.somewhere.com/buzz/   Writings on Technology and Society

I'm not sure which upsets me more: that people are so unwilling to accept
responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate
everyone else's.
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