From: Jamie Lawrence <jal(_at_)jal(_dot_)org>
To: John Fenley <pontifier(_at_)hotmail(_dot_)com>
CC: asrg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: Re: [Asrg] Spam Control Complexity
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 11:58:46 -0500
On Sat, 19 Apr 2003, John Fenley wrote:
> > Most diseases fall somewhere in between. Spam looks more like the
> >common cold than any other analagous disease, so it's probably going
> >to be impossible to get rid of entirely.
>
> Spam uses human vectors to propegate just as smallpox did. The type of
> internet user who actually buys products from spam is the human vector
that
> allows spam to complete it's "life cycle".
Spam doesn't "use" anything. Spam is generated by people motivated by
economics and made possible by the nature of the infrastructure. It
will not go away, but can be mitigated to varying degrees by changes
to the infrastructure.
Arguing that spam is a disease is the same as arguing that car
crashes are a disease.
Spam evolves.
Spam foats around randomly untill it finds someone who will allow it to
spread.
Partial defences give rise to virulent "resistant strains" of spam.
In these ways spam is EXACTLY like a disease.
> I have heard many arguments against Challenge/Response systems, but many
of
[...]
> C/R would not be good for a buissiness address.
> A buissiness is not going to buy from spam, thus they are not a
vector
> for it's propegation.
Incorrect. Businesses recieve spam, and are made of people. People
buy stuff from spam.
ok, so they are a vector.
the point is, my system is not aimed at the buissiness user who must recieve
orders and requests daily from strangers.
It is aimed at the majority of new internet users.
I don't see this "problem" as a reason why it will not work for them.
> C/R is annoying to people.
> C/R isn't going to stop a friend from emailing you. I'm guessing
the
> majority of email a new internet user recieves is from personal friends.
> Also my twist on the turing test *could* be fun for a new user, and
whomever
> decides to mail them.
I will not use a CR system, so you're right, it won't stop a friend from
emailing me.
That is ok, you don't have to challenge your incoming messages. My system
merely allows you the choice.
> C/R can mess with mailing lists.
> I proposed a system to fix that problem. I recieved no
constructive
> criticism, and when I proposed government funding that became the issue
not
> wether or not it could work.
Alan handled this point well.
The main issue is that C/R, no matter how annoying (sorry, "fun") you
make it, addresses the issue by erecting roadblocks to communication
rather than changing the nature of the communications channel in any
meaningful way.
The details are important. Everyone here responbed to the "address
verification" performed by this list. This was a Challenge, and all of you
Responded. C/R.
You wanted something more than it inconvinienced you to respond.
> [...] Spam decreases
> productivity. Immediate action is nessisary. I feel a disease
eradication
> aproach is the correct one.
Your apparent desire to get governments involved is making more sense.
Yes, the government has the funds to make a plan into reality if that plan
can realy solve the problem.
John Fenley
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