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RE: [Asrg] Spam Control Complexity -- scaling, adoption, diversit y and scenarios

2003-04-20 11:14:52
HBP> It is empirically easier to deploy changes at servers 
than in mail clients.

No doubt you have empirical data to substantiate your empirical
assertion.

Fifteen years of trying to deploy PKI through the edge model.

My experience is that deployment of new client features takes
five years or more - even in communities with a need for the
features.

So, please cite some major enhancement to an Internet-scale,
Internet-diversity, existing service, that could have been done either
in an edge fashion or a core fashion, that went quickly (or at all)
through core deployment, rather than edge.

I am not aware of any Internet service the IETF has succeffully
deployed while I have been involved with it. Not one thing.

The Web was successful before the IETF was involved and largely
in spite of IETF dogma.

Need more proof?
        IPSEC - Has failed in its design niche, currently losing
                ground to SSL based VPNs which work better through 
                NAT
        DNSSEC - Still a theory
        IPv6 - Still a theory

The IETF has failed to deploy any of the three major must do
projects from ten years ago. I conclude that it is time to ditch
the dogma.

My own counter-example will be multi-media mail, which failed 
to deploy
through a core approach in spite of 2 or three eager efforts over a 10
year period, while MIME became useful within the first year of its
release.

Well duh! Multimedia mail does kinda require a multi-media client.

It also requires terminals capable of multimedia display. It is no
accident the Web appeared when it did. Back in 1990 it was still
common to have a VT125 as your means of internet access. Graphical
terminals were rare and expensive.


"doubled ended" sounds like a dandy term.  what does it mean?

Must be deployed by both the sending and receving party before
there is any benefit.

if it means "at both ends" then i would be quite interested 
to hear how
any enhancement that involves interoperability can be useful 
if deployed
to only one component.

Content filtering requires only single ended adoption.

Some of the authentication mechanisms discussed authenticate
replies using single ended techniques.

In a strange way, so do the Web, the key being you don't care
are much about the particular people you are communicating with.

                Phill
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