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Re: [Asrg] New draft draft-irtf-asrg-bcp-blacklists-01.txt

2008-03-31 00:08:38

On Mar 30, 2008, at 7:51 PM, Steve Atkins wrote:

On Mar 30, 2008, at 10:29 PM, Douglas Otis wrote:
This message is posted on behalf of Dave Rand.

While Dave often has a unique perspective, I'm slightly concerned  
that anyone would interact with the ASRG in a write-only manner. If  
Doug represents Trend Micro policy, he can present and discuss it  
here himself. If this is, instead, a private observation from Dave,  
it might be better if Dave were to present it as a private  
observation himself, rather than as a statement presented by an  
employee.

Several subscribers on this list made comments concerning policies  
used by MAPS.  Dave Rand was requested to comment since he has more  
than a unique perspective.  Please note he has also offered his  
contact information.

The RBL(tm) is a *fully manual* process.  No automation.  It is the  
"list of last resort".  It is used to stop spam coming from  
*persistant* spam sources - ones that have been brought to the  
attention of the service providers, and that the service provider  
has ignored.

That seems to clash with past statements of the MAPS RBL team. IIRC,  
the RBL was intended to punish those who, in the sole discretion of  
the RBL staff, "support spam" in some vague, abstract way. It was
not intended solely to actually block or stop spam. Listings were  
punitive, and intended to cause business damage, not to actually  
block spam, and there was no consistent policy or oversight.

Of course, any listing might be seen as punitive by the network  
provider.  Listing depends upon observed abuse and inaction by the  
network provider.  That has not changed.  Assessment information is  
being bolstered, and remains a work in progress.  The fundamentals  
have not changed, but these are not found this draft. : (

There is only one confirmable entity able to abate spam, the network  
provider.  Efforts might be measured over an aggregate of advertised  
address space. Tools available to the block/black-hole list operators  
are modest compared to that of the network provider.  When a majority  
of advertised address space appears involved in high levels of abuse,  
consolidation of these portions may occur.  Before there is any  
listing published, the co-operation of the network provider is  
sought.  Only the network provider is able to abate abuse, where this  
indeed may involve removing access.  Removing access may also be seen  
as negatively affecting business.  But of course, so might high levels  
of email abuse.

-Doug
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