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Re: [Asrg] ipv6 macro expansion example in SPF specification, DNS ranges...

2011-01-25 13:29:57
On 1/24/11 7:55 PM, Dotzero wrote:
 On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Douglas Otis 
<dotis(_at_)mail-abuse(_dot_)org>
 wrote:
> Defeating spam requires the reputation of SMTP clients be weighed
> for rejection or acceptance!

 Doug, could you share with us what reputation is?

Reputation Definition: An assessment of an identifier that accurately reflects the behavior of the resource administrator. For example, these identifiers might be the address of an SMTP client or the AS of the network provider.

SPF represents a poor choice. SPF represents an unreliable authorization mechanism that also fails at isolating behaviors of resource administrators. Those who attempt to make use of this mechanism often weaken the integrity of email delivery.

 As far the mailbox providers are concerned (that I have spoken with)
 it is reduced to "What have you done to me today".

Sorry, but this statement is vague, as is SPF. No one knows how SPF might be used. A PASS used as a basis to verify an unseen Sender-ID PRA header or Return-Path parameter can be highly deceptive and even place recipients at risk. Malefactors can authorize anyone's resources, where macros contained in SPF can also obfuscate their breath.

 Their systems don't care whether you have had a good reputation for
 the past 2 years. If you start spewing badness today and you start
 generating complaints today then you will be throttled or blocked.

SPF does not help with this problem, nor can DKIM be safely used in this manner, as it is designed to permit replays. See Reputation Definition.

 If the time interval of reputation is that short then reputation
 systems are not particularly useful as an absolute requirement for
 defeating SPAM.

Systems are often in transition from compromised to cleaned. As such, effective SPAM mitigation MUST be responsive, either by actions of reputation services, or by resource administrators. A responsive resource administrator represents by far the most effective actor in SPAM mitigation.

> SPF failures say little about an SMTP client.

 They may or may not say something about the client in and of itself
 but they do say something about the relationship of the SMTP client
 to the purported Mail From domain when a well constructed SPF record
 ends in a -ALL

An "-all" suffix means what? Should MTAs refuse a message that fails a check that may require 111 transactions to verify? An SMTP client issuing a message by properly carrying forward the Return-Path to ensure email delivery integrity may cause this check to fail and has done nothing wrong!

> DKIM failures also say little about the SMTP client because either
> mechanism MUST be allowed to fail to retain email delivery
> integrity.

 A purist always brings a smile to my face. I know quite a few folks
 at large receivers who would disagree with your "MUST".

Are you saying that all SPF failures MAY be refused?

 What they
 are concerned about is ensuring the delivery integrity of mail their
 users want. As far as delivery integrity of mail their users don't
 want.....not so much. And that includes marketing emails their users
 don't want. The issue for them is not generic email delivery
 integrity but rather, how to find the sweet spot of
 rejecting/blocking/discarding while minimizing (not eliminating
 every single instance) performing such actions on mail their users
 actually want.

 Here is a truth for you. Mailbox providers will determine for
 themselves what works for them irrespective of any "MUST" you seek
 to impose on them. They will use standards based approaches and they
 will use non-standards based approaches. They will discard mail in a
 manner that offends your sensibilities. At the end of the day it is
 not about you....it is about them and their relationship with their
 customers.

Attempts to divine a recipient's desire has little to do with SPF. Are you suggesting all failures be rejected, or all passes be accepted? Any provider that hopes to meet the desires of their customers MUST look elsewhere to determine proper message handling. For example, I have advocated use of a third-party authorization scheme to assist with this process.

-Doug
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