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Re: [ietf-dkim] RE: I think we can punt the hard stuff as out ofscope.

2007-06-09 18:59:47

On Jun 9, 2007, at 5:42 PM, Hector Santos wrote:

Douglas Otis wrote:
On Jun 9, 2007, at 1:51 PM, Hector Santos wrote:

That said, some systems, such as our own, have a one attempt only for the "Implicit MX" rule. i.e. No MX -> A Lookup --> 1 attempt only.

This past week alone we would have electronic mail communications fails with legit customers lacking MX records if this rule was enforced.

I just can't see this happening. I will have to see snow balls falls from these South Florida skies before I would have our SMTP system changed.
The concept is to first deprecate use of A records for discovering inbound SMTP servers. After some period of time, then obsolete the use of A records for this purpose.

Well Doug, go ahead and proposed it, write an I-D, see how it flies in IETF-SMTP. And while you are there see if you get the IMC.ORG to stop using MAIL.IMG.ORG as the return path domain WITHOUT a MX record.

Using your concept, you effectly stopped all bounce mail back to their return path.

Hector,

You seem to have confused the concept of deprecate and obsolete. The suggestion was to deprecate the use of A records for discovery. (As in suggesting this will soon become obsolete.) This suggestion will not cause mail.imc.org to cease functioning. (Don't expect this field to be tested with respect to DKIM either. Refusing a message due to a failure to confirm "proof of use" based solely upon MX records would be far less disruptive than refusing to discover a return-path using A records.)

Nothing can be done quickly. Any changes to email will take time. Ideally, these changes will result in a cleaner and easier to manage set of records. This goal would tend to exclude any type of wildcard scheme. Searching up domains also generates a fair amount of NXDOMAIN traffic.

The cleanest approach is to simply publish policy records adjacent to MX records. Over time, this should be all that is needed. Those being phished might wish to publish policy records adjacent to their A records for the period of time it takes to obsolete A record discovery. This would likely depend upon how likely A records are used to spoof domains.

Those developing phishing filters which utilize DKIM can also readily utilize policy information found adjacent to MX records. Much of what needs to be stopped often can not be determined by email- addresses within headers. The general appearance of a message body along with a likelihood the From email-address can not be clearly viewed is often how people are being fooled. A policy record next to the MX record, even when only used to instruct anti-abuse message filters, will go a long way in preventing much of the abuse without becoming disruptive.


-Doug


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