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RE: [ietf-dkim] Re: ISSUE 1521 -- Limit the application of SSPtounsigned messages

2008-01-24 12:11:11

 Ok, now I'm confused......

Does -1 mean remove the text or does -1 mean oppose the proposal. My
intent is to oppose the proposal to remove text.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: ietf-dkim-bounces(_at_)mipassoc(_dot_)org 
[mailto:ietf-dkim-bounces(_at_)mipassoc(_dot_)org] On Behalf Of MH 
Michael Hammer (5304)
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 1:56 PM
To: dcrocker(_at_)bbiw(_dot_)net; ietf-dkim
Subject: RE: [ietf-dkim] Re: ISSUE 1521 -- Limit the 
application of SSPtounsigned messages


Apologies for top posting if it offends anyone. 

-1  I OPPOSE this proposal for the following reasons. 

The D in DKIM refers to Domain, not user. If it cannot be used 
to strongly protect the purported originating domain based on 
that domains stated assertions and policy, then DKIM-SSP is of 
limited value. 

Without requiring a check (not saying what action the receiver must
take) of the From address, what we are saying is that bad guy 
signature on evil nasty email is just as worthwhile of a 
signature as that of the owner of the domain in the From address. 

Anyone care to argue that a signature from 
randomrotating.randomrotating_evil.ru is a sufficient and 
trustworthy signature for an email purporting to be from this 
list even though mipassic.org isn't DKIM signing? BTW, isn't 
ironic that an organization that is pushing DKIM isn't signing 
even with t=y?

Requiring a check of From does not dictate the decision the 
receiver (MTA,MUA, person at keyboard, whatever) chooses to do 
with the results.
The folks in favor of removing the text are concerned about 
what receivers will do based on such a check. Shouldn't that 
choice be left to the individual? 

This is almost like arguing that a sign saying "DANGER, 
Shallow Water - Do not Dive" should be removed because some 
people might want to ignore the sign and dive in headfirst anyways. 

Feel free to ignore the from DKIM signature in your personal 
implementation but please don't weaken the opportunity for the 
owner of a domain to make an assertion through DKIM-SSP and 
expect that people following the standard have at least 
checked their disclaimer. If a domain owner chooses not to 
make an assertion or chooses to make a weaker assertion, that 
is their perogative. 

Mike







Summary of proposal:

All text that causes SSP to be applied to an already-signed message 
needs to be removed.


Folks,

I've reviewed the thread that took place on this topic.  Here are 
summary
statistics:

   Total postings in thread:  46

   Number of different people posting:  14

   Apparent REJECT of proposal: 4

   Apparent ACCEPT of proposal: 5


I would like to ask folks with an opinion about this proposal to post 
an explicit note stating support or opposition.  Some of the existing 
posts were about substantive issues in the proposal, but did not 
clearly indicate support or opposition.

Given that this issue goes to the core of a significant 
fraction of the 
current specification's functionality and given that there is 
at least 
an implied requirement for the functionality in the SSP requirements 
RFC, I'll ask folks to do both a +1/-1 *and* to explain their reasons.

I also do not find a record in the archive of working group agreement 
to add the features in question.  So an assumption that the features 
should be retained unless there is a rough consensus *against* is 
problematic.  Citing the SSP requirements RFC is comforting, but 
questionable, absent any history of group discussion and clear rough 
consensus about the matter.


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