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Re: [ietf-smtp] parsing SMTP replies

2021-03-18 18:15:19
On 2021-03-18 3:58 p.m., Viktor Dukhovni wrote:
On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 10:57:12AM -0700, Michael Peddemors wrote:

Personally, think the IETF should just stay out of recommending any
limits, or advertisement of limits, we already have mechanisms via the
4xx and 5xx to tell the remote MTA what to do, and even a reason why we
did it, but there is no real 'standard' that is evident out there, so
why are we (IETF) attempting to set standards..

IETF standards are there to define interoperable behaviour.  Barring a
change in the SMTP protocol that deprecates multi-recipient envelopes,
an MTA relaying a message needs to know how many recipients it can
reasonably expect to bundle up into a single delivery.

The standard specifies that servers are expected to handle at least 100,
and that way be likely to avoid interoperability issues, since senders
need to be able to handle servers that support only 100 and no more.

A server that supports fewer than 100 recipients per envelope may fail
to interoperate reliably with conformant sending MTAs.  If the sender
is in fact a source of unwanted junk, lossy email service is feature.
But otherwise, if low limits are applied too broadly, the receiving
MTA may face issues receiving multi-recipient messages in a timely
manner or at all.

So I strongly take issue with "the IETF should just stay out...".

This should come from the industry, and right now, every MTA admin has
different ideas on this, depending on their usage scenario.

Industry gets to participate in the IETF process to help define
interoperable specifications.

Not trying to start a flame war, just my position on THIS particular issue.. As pointed out, we have interoperability already through the use of 4xx and 5xx, and it isn't a case where systems are currently advertising a limit of recipient counts, where we now need to set a common standard.

If you show me MTA's currently advertising limits on how much they accept, then it may be something that needs to be addressed.

This seems to be a case of building a cart before the horse.

I think this is a case of sender's who 'hope' that MTA's advertise this maybe?

Either way, it seems like the wrong time/place to put in standards for a need that is not yet apparent.

But I bow out of this thread then.. I made my opinion known, which I also is part of my right to participate in the conversation.

(But I sure would like to see an opinion from an MTA developer that they are looking for a standard to advertise how many recipients they accept.. I don't think it is on anyone's radar .. oh, we should start advertising this.. )

And most sysadmin's still try to hide what MTA they are even running ;)

I now go back to my corner..

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