RE: On PR-actions, signatures and debate

David,

        I disagree that we can determine "overly insistent" by a
simple counting of postings, but I do agree that it is usually
not hard to determine when someone is being overly persistent.
It's just possible that the threshold might be higher for some
than it is for others.

        You may be over-simplifying slightly, in terms of "overly
personal" postings.  At either end of the spectrum, it is easy 
to distinguish things as you suggest.  In the grey area toward 
the middle, it is not as easy.

        For example: if I make a statement, and someone replies 
in a way that indicates - to me - that they did not understand 
what I was saying, then it _should_ be perfectly reasonable for 
me to say that they may be missing the point I was trying to 
make. This is simply how communication works.  If time or other 
considerations make me terse, or I am not especially gifted in 
the area of tact, then I might say "you do not understand me."

        It only starts to become personal if I speculate, clearly 
imply - or, much worse, explicitly state - that they "missed my 
point" is a direct result of physical, emotional, psychological, 
educational or temperamental impairments that they possess.

        To one person, the mere fact that another person disgrees 
with them is conclusive proof that they don't understand.  To 
another person, the mere statement that they don't understand
clearly implies some impairment.

        It's possible that both of these people might be taking
things a lot more personally than either of them should.

--
Eric

--> -----Original Message-----
--> From: ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org 
--> [mailto:ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org]On Behalf Of
--> Nelson, David
--> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 3:42 PM
--> To: ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
--> Subject: RE: On PR-actions, signatures and debate
--> 
--> 
--> Anthony G. Atkielski writes...
--> 
--> > There are no objective standards for obnoxious, abusive, or
--> > disrespectful speech.
--> 
--> I think that this is not so hard to distinguish as you 
--> suggest.  There
--> are two general cases: (a) overly insistent and (b) overly personal.
--> The overly insistent poster will almost always attempt to 
--> have the last
--> word in any thread, repeats positions frequently on the 
--> premise that if
--> you say something often enough it become true, and inserts 
--> "pet peeve"
--> issues into otherwise unrelated threads.  The overly personal poster
--> makes comments about other posters, for example making 
--> assertions about
--> their lack of clear thinking, their failure to understand the issue,
--> their unspoken motivations, their stubbornness, and so forth.
--> 
--> While there are no standards, I think that case (a) can be 
--> usually be
--> recognized by sheer volume of postings and case (b) is 
--> easily detected
--> because the subject of argument ceases to be about the 
--> technical details
--> of the protocol, and becomes about the other correspondents.
--> 
--> 
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