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Re: IONs & discuss criteria

2008-03-06 14:01:46
At 12:42 PM -0800 3/6/08, Brian E Carpenter wrote:

Firstly, it's not for me to prejudge the IESG's conclusions
about IONs, but I would suggest that any ION issued by the
IESG implicitly carries the same status as any other IESG
statement, unless rescinded, so I don't quite share your concern.

I went and looked at RFC 4693 before I posted my first note.
It says:

   If the IESG decides that the feedback warrants terminating the
   series, the repository will be closed for new documents, and the
   existing ION documents will be returned to having the same status as
   any other Web page or file on the IETF servers -- this situation will
   closely resemble the situation before the experiment started.

The status this document had prior to being approved
as an ION was "Internet draft", which means it had
no formal status at all and was followed by the IESG
as a matter of lore.

However, the deeper question is whether the "discuss criteria"
*should* be promoted to BCP (which effectively binds future
IESGs as well as the current IESG). That is worth some
discussion. My experience on both sides of the fence is that
having the criteria spelled out has been extremely valuable
to authors, WGs, reviewers and the IESG itself. I'm a bit less
certain whether they should be made binding. Flexibility
leaves space for applying common sense.

There is no reason for a community-agreed document not to
have flexibility.  There are strong reasons to make this a community
agreed document.   Making it something that the community
can hold the IESG to, rather than something the IESG can modify
by issuing an updated ION, is a critical part of this.

                        Ted Hardie


On 2008-03-07 09:01, Ted Hardie wrote:
The call for comments on IONs seems to have ended without
clarifying the effect of the end of the experiment on the standing
of current IONs.  For most of them, I honestly don't think the
standing is much of an issue.  But for the "discuss criteria" ION,
I believe it is a serious issue.  At this point, it is difficult to know
whether the discuss criteria document is in force or not, and the
extent to which the issuing body is bound by it.

I think this is a very bad thing.

I call on Russ to restore this document to its original status as
an Internet Draft and to process it as a BCP.  IESG DISCUSSes are
a very serious part of our process at this point.  Having a community
agreed standard to which IESG members  could be held was always a better
path than than a document approved only by the IESG.  Now that
the ION experiment is over and the status of its document is in
limbo, things are even worse.

The current document is here:

for those readers playing the home game.

                              Ted  Hardie
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