On 2008-08-14 05:10, John C Klensin wrote:
--On Wednesday, August 13, 2008 2:21 PM +0200 Simon Josefsson
<simon(_at_)josefsson(_dot_)org> wrote:
If the IETF removes patent disclosures, I believe the IETF
will find itself in the position of evaluating the
_correctness_ of patent related claims. This seems like the
wrong approach.
Or the authority to request that something be removed. That seems like
equally bad news.
One way to mitigate your problem without getting into
evaluating correctness or removing disclosures would be to
collect all patent disclosures updates on the same page as the
original patent disclosure, and sort the entries in reverse
calendar order. Then anyone can add note that a disclosure
below was filed without authority. That disclosure can be
evaluated for correctness the same way that other disclosures
can be evaluated. Removing disclosures makes it impossible
for IETF participants to evaluate the contents for themselves.
Exactly
It seems to me that any other course of action leads us into rat holes.
I note, fwiw, that a company statement that said "the person who made
that earlier statement had no authority to do so and we have fired him
for making the claim" would (i) be very persuasive in the right way,
(ii) establish the authority of the person making the latter statement,
(iii) provide the foundation for libel action by the original filer
against the person or company making the statement if it were not true,
since the claim that someone had been fired on that basis would clearly
be harmful to his or her reputation.
Clearly, the IETF would not be party to any of that -- we just post
statements -- nor would that be the only sort of corrective statement
that could be made. But it would be effective.
I wasn't even aware, during my tenure as chair, that the 'remove' button
existed. The only removals I recall, which may or may not be in the
numbers Simon quoted, were completely bogus and nonsensical disclosures
clearly filed by someone who was just fiddling around on the Web.
I agree that if any real disclosures are "removed" there should be a
complete public record. In fact "removed" is the wrong status - it
should be "rescinded", and if the original disclosure said it was
perpetual, I think the IETF should refuse to rescind it *whatever*
assertions are made about authority. In any case, RFC 3979 makes no
provision for removal or rescission, so we could argue that they are
not allowed; only revision is mentioned by RFC 3979. A revision that
purports to cancel a previous perpetual promise would be an
interesting case for the courts, of course, but not something
for the IETF to take a position on.
I think all of this needs to be checked by counsel.
Brian
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