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RE: [IAOC] Request for community guidance on issue concerning a future meeting of the IETF

2009-09-19 23:13:50
If by engage you mean continue to discuss the terms of having a meeting in 
China, then I agree. If the government there really wants to host an IETF 
meeting, they should be able to help changes these terms to focus on 
individuals and not the entire event or organization.

But to suggest that without holding a meeting in China the IETF does not engage 
its Chinese members, that is simply false.

Personally, I doubt I will be attending a meeting in China. Not because of any 
political reasons, but simply because the cost of such a meeting compared to 
the value it brings my employer (that is attending a meeting, not general IETF 
participation).

My concerns are having access to the meeting via IRC and voice streams and not 
having to worry about where the meeting it taking place. I think bad behavior 
is more likely from people participating from outside China than at the event. 
And if all it takes to shut down such channels is someone saying something 
about Tibet on the IRC channel, then that's simply not acceptable.

EHL



-----Original Message-----
From: ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org 
[mailto:ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org] On Behalf Of
Marshall Eubanks
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 3:17 PM
To: Steve Crocker
Cc: IAOC IAOC; IETF Discussion
Subject: Re: [IAOC] Request for community guidance on issue concerning
a future meeting of the IETF

Speaking just for myself, I agree with Steve. I think it that is
better to engage than to retreat. Nothing is certain, but I also think
that it is highly likely that we would have a good meeting.

Regards
Marshall


On Sep 19, 2009, at 3:55 PM, Steve Crocker wrote:

The choice is between engaging and not engaging.  Engaging is
better.  Not engaging isn't constructive.  The Internet and the IETF
are all about engaging, expanding, communicating and being open.
Much of this dialog has been worried about possible extreme
situations.  Let's focus on the center.  More than a billion people
live in China and their use of the Internet is expanding rapidly.
They are building much of the technology and contributing
technically.  It's to everyone's advantage to have comfortable,
constructive interaction.  Our first slogan was "Networks Bring
People Together."

If you prefer to focus on the negatives, here's my analysis:

If we don't go to China, we have charted a downhill course and the
rest of the world will come together without us.  The IETF will lose
relevance.

If we do go to China and something bad happens, the consequences
will be much worse for China than for the IETF.  The work of the
IETF will suffer a bit, but we'll recover quickly enough.  However,
China's quest for engagement with the rest of the world will be hurt
more seriously.

Bottom line: We should go to China with a positive attitude.  We're
robust enough to deal with any consequences.  If we don't go to
China, however, we have weakened ourselves.

Steve

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