Hi Steve -
To paraphrase, you believe we should accept constraints upon the topics that
can be raised at the meeting (stick to the center) as the cost of doing
business in China. And the reason for that is to maintain the relevance of the
IETF?
I'm finding this argument not well constructed.
I agree that engagement is good, but the IETF is about individuals and we
engage better at a personal level than IETF to country. That can be
accomplished at any venue - and possibly better at a venue without excessive
constraints on discussion.
I'd be happy to have a WG meeting in the PRC - on topics other than those
common to the security area, but I remain concerned about prior restraint for
the IETF as a whole as a price of holding a meeting there.
At 03:55 PM 9/19/2009, Steve Crocker wrote:
The choice is between engaging and not engaging. Engaging is better.
Not engaging isn't constructive. The Internet and the IETF are all
about engaging, expanding, communicating and being open. Much of this
dialog has been worried about possible extreme situations. Let's
focus on the center. More than a billion people live in China and
their use of the Internet is expanding rapidly. They are building
much of the technology and contributing technically. It's to
everyone's advantage to have comfortable, constructive interaction.
Our first slogan was "Networks Bring People Together."
If you prefer to focus on the negatives, here's my analysis:
If we don't go to China, we have charted a downhill course and the
rest of the world will come together without us. The IETF will lose
relevance.
This construction is black and white and somewhat irrelevant. The IETF not
meeting at this time in China is unlikely to make the rest of the world "come
together without us". Nor will us going to the meeting be the sole reason for
the world coming together with us.
If we do go to China and something bad happens, the consequences will
be much worse for China than for the IETF. The work of the IETF will
suffer a bit, but we'll recover quickly enough. However, China's
quest for engagement with the rest of the world will be hurt more
seriously.
There's bad and there's BAD. I'm mostly concerned not about the whole IETF
being kicked out of the hotel/PRC, but in individuals being sequestered or
removed for speech that in any other IETF venue would be relevant and on-topic
for the technical discussion. That (fear of) prior restraint has a strong
possibility of adversely affecting the IETF by limiting discussion and
constraining the free flow of ideas. And that - free flow of ideas- not
"engagement" - is the strength of the IETF.
Bottom line: We should go to China with a positive attitude. We're
robust enough to deal with any consequences. If we don't go to China,
however, we have weakened ourselves.
Bottom line - we should be the IETF and find venues that will accept us for
ourselves.
_______________________
Hmm.. I was going to stop there, but let's ask the meta question: What is the
maximum set of constraints you think we should accept on the IETF as the price
of holding a meeting? For example, would it be acceptable to go somewhere
where a class of IETF participant were treated as 2nd class citizens and
possibly segregated? Would it be acceptable to go somewhere where ALL
presentations had to be vetted and approved by the local government? Etc?
Its all about slippery slopes - if we accept constraints other than those we
impose upon ourselves, we weaken ourselves.
Mike
Steve
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