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Re: [lisp] Last Call: <draft-ietf-lisp-eid-block-03.txt> (LISP EID Block) to Informational RFC

2012-11-16 10:48:08
Dino, to come back on topic. I understand the drafts purpose is to request a 
block of IPv6 address be delegated for this specific purpose, from IANA. The 
request is to the IAB. So, its a request for architectural aspects of 
addressing, facing an experiment.

Sure.

a /12 is a very large amount of space. This demands rigour in the process to 
apply, even a reservation requires a sense of why, and justification. "we 
think its about right" isn't appropriate and the document needs more work to 
specify why a 16, and why a /12, and what the implications are of eg a 
smaller allocation under a /16 reservation, or some other size (a /32 even, 
for which there are both precedents, in experimental allocations, and an 
existing process inside the RIR address management framework).

Okay.

Secondly, you appear to assume these allocations to EID can simply use 
current RIR practices. The problem is that you need to understand what 
needs-based and justification means in process terms: Hostmasters in the RIR 
system try very hard not to be placed in a position of making arbitrary 
subjective decisions: they have processes which are designed to ask for 
objective justifications to specify why an allocation should take place, and 
at what scale. Those objective criteria face addresses as addresses. not EID.

No, I am not making any assumptions either way. How allocation gets done is 
subject to more work.

For an example: IPv6 address allocation process currently is implemented 
using sparse allocation (binary chop with some modifications) in the APNIC 
region. This maximises space around allocations to equalise the distribution 
of free blocks such that the commons, the unallocated space, remains as 
usefully large as possible and when the next binary stride is entered, there 
is some understanding its going to be applied in common to all occupants of 
that region of space (in terms of the size of hole around them, which is not 
a reservation per se, but provides for risk-management of future growth to 
the largest extent).

There is no special semantics of EIDs that require you to change this. EIDs are 
just addresses that do not get injected into the underlying routing system. 
Other than that, they are just like any other address an RIR allocates.

We're really quite proud of sparse: its extended the life of the /12 we 
occupy quite markedly. What impact will EID have on this? Is sparse an 
appropriate allocation engine to use for EID? What if eg you have 
expectations of almost-geographic aspects of address management in EID. 
Doesn't that require documentation as a process? And, you may be specifying a 
cost on the RIR system, to engineer support for the new allocation logic. If 
it doesn't logically fit in sparse allocation, we need to know. And we need 
to know why.

What Joel said.

EID are not going to be used like 'normal' addresses. So, the normal 
justifications don't look entirely

Define how a 'normal address" is used.

appropriate to me from 10,000ft. The document needs to say "maybe we need to 
understand the allocation processes that the RIR should objectively apply" or 
maybe you need to step outside of draft space and engage inside the RIR 
policy process and seek a global policy which can document the process.

The working decided that this draft is solely for request purposes. We could 
use help from RIRs to write a document on how to allocate EIDs. But I am pretty 
sure it would look like documents that already exist.

I don't understand why you think they look different or need to be treated 
differently. So you have to do the explaining.  ;-)

To ask for an IANA allocation without having undertaken this process looks 
wrong to me. So, I stand by my concern the document isn't ready for IETF last 
call: it hasn't addressed substantive issues around the process and 
expectations of address/registry function, to manage the /16, and it hasn't 
documented the basis of asking for a /16 in the first place, or a /12 
reservation.

Here is a real world example we have been using on the LISP beta network. It is 
so simple that it really needs no more explanation than what I am going to 
explain below:

(1) We have 2610:00d0::/32 allocated for EIDs.
(2) Each site on the LISP beta network gets a /48 out of that.
(3) Each site xTRs register their /48 with the mapping system using RLOCs that 
are PA addresses they use to attach to the Internet.

That is it. So I am not getting why there are so many issues. Can't we keep 
this simple and experiment please?

Dino


cheers

-George


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