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Re: Internet organisations coordination meeting

2014-02-16 14:38:57
Jorge - 
 
    This particular group of folks gathered and received updates on various 
activities 
    going on... e.g.  Jari and Russ spoke of perpass.  It is a coordinating 
function; so 
    we know about major initiatives going on and can support and/or avoid 
conflicts 
    as appropriate.

    The only reason for the post-meeting statements (in my view) is simply 
because 
    people were unaware that these periodic gatherings were going on, and 
indicated
    that we should be make such more visible.

    Note also that there quite a bit of focus on making sure the most recent 
statement
    simply said what happened, i.e.  a gathering of folks received a series of 
updates 
    from each other on a list of topics of potentially mutual interest.  

    As a result, I now realize that W3C is having its 20th anniversary; that 
ICANN's
    various strategy panels have been meeting, and that the "Brazil meeting" is 
now
    know as  “Netmundial” and has its own website <http://netmundial.br>.   I 
don't 
    really know what the other leaders (for lack of a better term) took away, 
but 
    would hope that Jari, Russ, etc. found it useful context and background for 
their
    IETF efforts.    I guess that one option would be for the "leaders" from 
the IETF
    community not to attend such gatherings, but that seems to be a rather 
extreme
    response to take due to lack of a better term than "leader" (and one hopes 
it is
    unnecessary so long as care is taken to make nothing more of the meetings 
than
    what they are - a gathering of folks hearing updates so we can better 
coordinate)

FYI,
/John

On Feb 16, 2014, at 10:58 AM, Jorge Amodio <jmamodio(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com> 
wrote:


I agree that "spokesperson" is not either the appropriate term. And leader is 
far far away to be representative of their roles and positions.

True that on their role they "lead" the organizations they are involved with 
but the Internet community does not follow them as *leaders*, particularly 
the CEOs of some organizations such as ICANN, ARIN, etc, that are just paid 
employees to play a specific executive role.

I'm really starting to dislike this effort of reverting the bottom-up process 
by a group that is starting to behave like a dictatorial junta making public 
statements that can be considered or interpreted as representative of the 
Internet community and particular organizations such as IETF.

They are no spokesperson, nor leaders, just they are what they are the CEO of 
ICANN, the Chair of IETF, the CEO of ARIN, etc.


My .02
Jorge



On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 6:20 AM, Ted Lemon 
<ted(_dot_)lemon(_at_)nominum(_dot_)com> wrote:
Folks, as John Klensin said, the reason we do not say "spokesperson" is that 
our leadership do not speak for us.   We only speak as a group through the 
consensus process.   So the term "spokesperson" is simply inaccurate.

The term "leader" makes sense as a generic because there were a number of 
organizations, with different leadership structures, some not involving the 
same consensus process that exists in the IETF.   So we couldn't for example 
say "chair," because that term wouldn't apply to all the people who signed 
the statement.

I realize that the term "leader" has its own set of connotations, but I don't 
know of a better word to use.   There is no word that we could use that would 
convey to someone who is not already familiar with IETF process what we mean. 
  Representative is no good for the same reason spokesperson is no good.   
Avatar doesn't really work either.

I think it's better to just accept that the language is imprecise, and think 
carefully about what is that we might be objecting to, and whether the 
objection _really_ makes sense in the context.   I guess there's about zero 
chance that this won't get discussed to death, and that's fine, but I don't 
think there's a knob to turn here.