On 8/12/2014 5:17 AM, Stephen Farrell wrote:
Ray,
On 12/08/14 11:10, Ray Pelletier wrote:
We just lost another 10% (?) from this list. At Plenary in Toronto
several folks admitted to unsubscribing years ago from this list.
Without judging whether or not the community needs a list for all the
varied discussions that take place here, isn't it time for a Last
Call list?
FWIW, I'm not convinced. Those already go to IETF-announce and
I bet a LC-discuss list would have all the same issues. I also
think there's a bunch of folks who'd object and haven't seen
their objections discussed, but I could be wrong there.
Adding the #subscribers to the Narten numbers might be useful
though so we could see the evolution of list-size.
I've been resistant to a separate list, primarily because the benefit of
the IETF-wide last call process is broad and frankly accidental review.
Unexpected folk looking at a document can find unexpected issues. This
is goodness, IMO. A separate list would be expected to have much
smaller and narrower participation and thereby reduce that benefit of
happenstance review.
However this IETF list mixes many topics, including one of serious
review. Worse, the lack of discipline in the conduct of discussions on
the IETF list ensures very poor signal-to-noise. And having its
membership drop off precipitously certainly undermines any expectation
of broad review...
If a separate list were created with an explicit charter to be for
review comments and discussion only, and if the list were operated with
explicit and active management to ensure discussion focus, tracking of
issues, and the rest of what is needed to create a serious tone of
serious discussion, then it well might be able to achieve meaningful
improvement over what we have now. This would mean explicitly declaring
who the facilitator is for each review request. (I doubt it is viable
to have a single person do it for all reviews.)
d/
ps. Reviews are not only for document last calls. we have some other
items (charters?) that have comments solicitied. Whatever the list is
called and whatever is written into its charter, it should be careful to
state what is in scope and what is out. And announcement notes should
be careful to point to the alternative list.
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net