On Sunday 14 December 2003 04:56 pm, Alan Hodgson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 14, 2003 at 04:30:34PM -0500, marrandy wrote:
Relays, as you put it, don't change the email address of the sender.
I mean, good grief. Look at every mail you receive. Use your own eyes
and
look at the mails you receive from this list.
The sender is there !!!
In every single one !!!
The only thing that 'changes' as such, is the Return-Path:
The Return-Path *is* the address of the sender, at least as far as your mail
server was concerned when it delivered the mail. Stuff in the
From:/Sender:/Resent-From:/blah/blah headers is irrelevant.
Mail servers and content scanners that try to get smart and look inside the
message headers invariably screw things up, especially when they start
sending
bounces and notifications. Vacation programs and anti-virus systems are
particularly bad at this; like the broken spam scanner that posted to this
list
earlier.
Alan. Yes he has continually used vague terminology. Perhaps I stripped more
material than I should. My apologies. But it is clear he is talking about
From: (which is added by the mailer (MUA)) as opposed to MAIL FROM: in the
SMTP connection from the MTA, which is added by the receiving MTA header as a
Return-Path:
In very simple terms, this is no more than routing information.
I'll quote, but please looks back and verify.
"Second, let me make this assumption -- If joe(_at_)joe(_dot_)com sends a
message to
mary(_at_)mary(_dot_)com, then it should say it's from
joe(_at_)joe(_dot_)com(_dot_) In other words, I
am saying that relays should not change the email address of the sender. If
relays were to change the sender's address, then Mary will have no idea who
sent it, because the path from joe to mary is not guaranteed. Especially if
they travel."
He actually explains it explicitly this time.
Note he says:-
"relays should not change the email address of the sender"
By implication and using the terminology "relays should not change the email
address" it is implicit that he is talking about the original address from
the MUA. Logic. Take the whole paragraph in context and think about it.
Of course they don't !!!
In every mail you receive from the mailing list, it's blindingly obvious what
the email address of the person who sent the mail is. Be it me, you, or
anyone else the MTA DOES NOT change their email address.
He then backs that up by saying "If relays were to change the sender's
address, then Mary will have no idea who sent it, because the path from joe
to mary is not guaranteed. Especially if they travel."
Anyone can read the email address of the person that sent the mail. Hit
'reply to' all on your mailer, and it will add the list address and the
original email address. That just confirms that he's talking about the
original senders email address.
NOTE - If you really think he meant the email address of the sender = MTA
= Return-Path:
Then you are going to have to explain in his example, why Mary would have no
idea of who sent it.
When Mary's email address would be staring you in the face on your MUA, just
as every other person that has mailed this list has their email address
staring you in the face. That's a Third confirmation.
This mail reference basically blew it for me.
He talks in an authoritative manner, but when you rationalize his speech, his
responses, it is apparent he really doesn't understand either spf or SMTP,
Further, despite attempts of various people to explain how spf works and how
SMTP works, he has used his vague terminology to and try and confuse the
issue between the MUA and MTA usually staring with the pretty negative term
Wrong.
He then spins off on a slightly different tangent, with the old 'slight of
hand trick'. (ie. forget that, look over here).
I think he is a troll with an agenda and am going to ignore him once I have
finished my mails today
Regards...Martin
--
Small is beautiful.
-- Schumacher's Dictum
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