Re: ebay problem

So use the HELO string for this "new field"? Its before data and it is 
unusedd to the best of my knowledge.
christopher(_at_)pobox(_dot_)com wrote:

> > > > > * Convince Ebay to not forge email addresses.  (They could due SRS,
> > > > >  for example, or to collect any bounces themselves.)
> > > > >          
> I *like* the way that my emails through eBay hit the recipient with my
> address as the "From" - (they are not figuratively "forged" - I typed
> the email in through their web site in the 1st place remember).
>
> It is wrong to try and force other people to do what *we* want,
> especially when what they're doing is perfectly reasonable.  It is
> also wrong (or at least, exceptionally bad manners) to destroy every
> online business that makes a living from this kind of thing (eg:
> greeting cards etc) instead of adapting SPF to cater for this instead.
>
> I say we should build something extra into the system so that...
> A) If the actual sending MTA did forge an address, the receiving
>   SPF-enabled code can make a check to decide whether or not to allow
>   this.
> B) Add an *extra* SPF field into the spec so that people who want to
>   forbid this "authorized spoofing" (example: an online bank) can do
>   so if they're utterly convinced that nobody should ever send mail
>   as them.
>
> And keep in mind - 99.9% of admin people are going to say "nobody
> should ever spoof mail from my domain - period." - and 99.8% of them
> are going to be wrong because they didn't think about eBay, PayPal,
> greeting cards, web-based office tools, legitimate mailing list
> companies, 3rdy party survey organizations, and a load of other legit
> things.
>
> Remember - we are creating something that people *are* going to use to
> block incoming emails - *we* have a responsibility to ensure that the
> barest minimum possible of false positives can result.  ISP's don't
> want to tell their customers "it's not our fault you missed out on
> some auction, it's eBay who refused to obey our new rules who is to
> blame"
>
> There's 3,100,749 registered subnets out there - so you can guarantee
> that some of those businesses are going to get unfairly "cut down" by
> SPF unless we write something in that protects their livelihood.
> We're all smart - it's not that hard to think up good ways to do this.
>
>  
>
> > > > Seems like the latter would be the best solution for sites like this -
> > > > collect the bounces, and use a code in the Subject (for example) to
> > > > identify bounces and alert the other party of a message failure. They
> > > > should never have really been sending out messages with someone else as
> > > >        
> > > the
> > >      
> > >
> > > > sender to begin with.
> > > >        
> > > This is indeed NO solution on my opinion, lets point out the facts:
> > >
> > > 1)      we publish for all our 1000+ domains spf records with "-all" !!!
> > > 2)      nearly 100% is smooth and clear
> > > 3)      only some major players like ebay are breaking rfc rules.
> > >      
> A> Exactly. So having everyone stick to the rules is the solution.
>
>  
>
> > > but...
> > >
> > > ebay is a "must" in our days and if some Mails from ebay will be rejected
> > > with  554 .... our customers will shoot us off to the moon....
> > >
> > > so "who" may convince ebay to obey the rules.... i think some times they
> > > and other make the rules ....
> > >      
> A> What was their response when you contacted them with the suggestion?
>
>  
>
> > > on this point Meng shoud intervent at @all major sites to reinspect their
> > > email codes not to send with a envelope sender name of the  intented
> > > receiving domain !
> > >
> > > to solve this with a hot needle like "if ebay make following if microsoft
> > > do this.... " is not a real solution to help spf  !!!!!!!!
> > >      
> A> How is working around people rather than encouraging them to fit within the 
> A> rules going to "help" SPF? Surely it's going to simply ensure that the same 
> A> problem continues for everyone else, as well as for you with the next site 
> A> that decides to follow eBay?
>  
>
> > > so meng  please give your opinion for a possible and fast solution to this
> > > dillema !!!
> > >
> > > i postet two times to this list but no real answers are comming back..
> > >
> > > my alterenatives for all domains are for now to switch them to "?all"...
> > > rediciolous in my oppinion...
> > >
> > > so please help us an me and our customers with a bunch of real solution
> > > for this dilema no only wise tips...
> > >      
> A> Because you're not being very polite about it. Ridiculing those who do 
> A> respond isn't going to encourage any responses. 
>
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--
Carl Hutzler
Director, AntiSpam Operations
America Online Mail Operations
cdhutzler(_at_)aol(_dot_)com
703.265.5521 work
703.915.6862 cell