Mark,
Thanks for your continued efforts to resolve this issue. Hotmail has always
been an elusive mail service and even using SPF records and making certain
we have all of our PTR records set correctly, we occasionally receive
message denied errors when some of our customers are properly configured on
their mail client and their SPF and PTR records are correctly setup on our
mail servers.
We're running some fairly strict SPF testing on our incoming servers and,
yes, my junk mail filters DID catch the V***** word you used and place your
message into my SPAM mailbox while at the same time passing the SPF test for
the SPF discussion list and inserting an X header into the message header.
Here's the actual header from the SPF list message:
"X-IMAIL-SPAM-SPF: (03b2093300000e14) SPFPass_"
As a further evidence of your suspicion of Hotmail's broken SFP testing, can
you attempt to send a message directly to me from your Hotmail account?
Send it from your NEW Hotmail account to
bbarnes(_at_)chicagonettech(_dot_)com(_dot_)
You should also send me a note, perhaps via a response to the list, so, just
in case my SPF checking correctly catches your Hotmail message, I have a
notification of your sending the message. I will then check the mail server
logs to see if our anti-spam SPF checking and either ignoring Hotmail's SPF
record, immediately deleting the message (done only on a total SPF fail) or
passing the message and inserting a different X-HEADER into the message
header.
I will then post the results of the test to both to you, and to this list,
so this can be further investigated and, even though they will probably be
ignored, the response of the interrogatory posted back to Microsoft, and
Hotmail, in an effort that they might correct the situation . . . Hey, we
can always be hopeful . . .
Bruce Barnes
ChicagoNetTech
Chicago IL
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Wolk [mailto:wmark(_at_)markwolk(_dot_)com]
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 01:42
To: spf-discuss(_at_)v2(_dot_)listbox(_dot_)com
Subject: Re: [spf-discuss] Re: Hotmail and ptr in SPF records
On 7/28/06, Julian Mehnle <julian(_at_)mehnle(_dot_)net> wrote:
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Mark Wolk wrote:
As far as I can understand, Hotmail is seriously broken right now:
http://www.emailaddresses.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44332
So what's the news?
Mark Wolk wrote in one of his forum postings:
| I do not use Hotmail; but I need to send messages to people who do.
These
| are sometimes important clients, and I am not in a position to tell them
| that Hotmail is good or bad.
|
| All young guys / girls whom I know are on MSN Messenger and have Hotmail
| as their only email account, which seems as a logical extension to them.
| With the exception of some geeks, they don't seem to perceive Hotmail's
| limitations.
Ahh, the power of an oligolopoly...
As long as you assume that you are not in a position to tell people that
Hotmail is bad, you'll be bound to be playing by Microsoft's rules. Go
and get a Hotmail account then.
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Mark Wolk wrote:
As far as I can understand, Hotmail is seriously broken right now:
Julian Mehnle wrote in reply:
Go and get a Hotmail account then.
OK. I have taken your advice to the letter ;-) and I subscribed today
to MSN Premium for $20 per year! ...and... you were correct... Hotmail
is no longer broken!
I can now send mail to other Hotmail addresses using my Outlook
Express and the Hotmail HTTP server. Whatever the "From" address that
I program in my Outlook Express, Hotmail users (and others, as far as
I can see) receive my messages in their Inbox, and no longer in their
Junk Mail folder. (I did not push the trial as far as sending messages
with "V*****" in the subject line, though.)
But what baffles me is that, when sending messages that way, I
seemingly bypass all the world's SPF filters. I have sent a test
message using as "From" address a domain that has the SPF string
"v=spf1 -all" (meaning that no mail should ever be sent from that
domain). Well, my mail arrived perfectly in Hotmail's inbox, but also
in other mail services inboxes, and (when available in the headers) it
had SPF_PASS.
The other headers were:
Return-Path: <my_id(_at_)msn(_dot_)com>
X-Originating-Email: [my_id(_at_)msn(_dot_)com]
X-Sender: my_id(_at_)msn(_dot_)com
From: "Mark Wolk" <info(_at_)my_domain(_dot_)com>
and when the receiver replies to that mail, his / her reply is
properly addressed to info(_at_)my_domain(_dot_)com (and not to
my_id(_at_)msn(_dot_)com)
??? - I must admit I don't understand why and how it is possible, but
I suppose $20 is a small yearly ransom to pay for a business to be
able to communicate reliably with 50% of its customers.
Mark Wolk
New Zealand Splendeur Tours
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