Alex, just a little bit of feedback. I can certainly see why Dan felt piled on,
and why your comments in particular might have given that impression.
On Tue, May 01, 2007 at 9:21 AM PDT, Alex van den Bogaerdt wrote:
Original situation: Dan had a service, and he expected
"user(_at_)example(_dot_)com"
to deal with bounces that occured because of Dan's service.
That's *one* of the issues, but it's certainly not the only one. In the
interests of user education, let's not over-simplify. There are multiple e-mail
best practice issues involved when running a web-based service that generates
messages to one party on behalf of a second party, and bounce handling is one
of them.
Next: SPF got in the way. Example.com didn't want Dan to use user's
email address. This is why example.com published a policy. Now Dan
is no longer able to send his ecards.
Next: Dan modified his service, and Dan's site now uses Dan's email
domain to send his ecards.
---> so far so good <---
Next: Dan is collecting bounces, and sends them to
user(_at_)example(_dot_)com just
like in the original situation.
So far, so good. What you're describing here is the learning process in action.
User sees a problem, takes steps to fix it, and then discovers that that has
unmasked a larger problem.
In other words: No problem is "solved" (see subject). All Dan has done
is to work around SPF, and while doing so he goes directly against the
spirit of SPF.
This is an uncharitable characterization. The very fact that Dan took the time
to find this list, join it, take feedback, make changes, and still come back to
engage in this discussion already shows his good intentions. While his interim
solution still isn't fully doing the right thing, he has demonstrated a
willingness to learn and to make the right changes. "All Dan has done is to
work around SPF, and while doing so he goes directly against the spirit of SPF"
makes it sound like you're accusing him of a deliberate attempt to deceive
folks.
Are you?
Does this sounds harsh Dan? That is because either
a) you still don't understand the problem.
or
b) you don't care.
This is a great example of where someone who lives immersed in this stuff
everyday oversimplifies. You've been involved in the minutiae of proper message
handling and SPF for how long? You think about this stuff all the time -- it's
second nature to you. It's not to Dan and to the vast majority of other people
you're trying to get to use SPF. You've now taken an ongoing learning process
and turned it into an adversarial confrontation.
I just hope it is (a), because in that case a dialog is possible.
This statement is downright condescending and hostile -- and I'm sure you
didn't mean it to be. Nevertheless, that's how it comes across.
Educating someone about SPF (or other technology) isn't an all-or-nothing
process. It's an iterative process. Not everyone is going to take every
statement that is made and immediately see the implications, or remember it
down the road after working on other aspects. I'm willing to bet you didn't get
your mastery of the subject overnight, and I'm willing to bet Dan won't either.
What I *am* willing to bet is that by being patient and pointing out the flaws
and dangers in Dan's current implementation without using adversarial language
-- and being willing to repeat things that you and others have said so that
with his added understanding and context they now make sense -- you'll be able
to keep working with him to produce another educated SPF user.
--
Devin L. Ganger, Exchange MVP Email: deving(_at_)3sharp(_dot_)com
3Sharp LLC Phone: 425.882.1032 x1011
14700 NE 95th Suite 210 Cell: 425.239.2575
Redmond, WA 98052 Fax: 425.558.5710
(e)Mail Insecurity: http://blogs.3sharp.com/blog/deving/
-------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sender Policy Framework: http://www.openspf.org/
Archives at http://archives.listbox.com/spf-discuss/current/
To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your
subscription,
please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?list_id=735
Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com