ietf-822
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Re: Understanding response protocols

2004-09-26 11:53:58

Russ Allbery wrote:
Keith Moore <moore(_at_)cs(_dot_)utk(_dot_)edu> writes:


It might be the case that only a small percentage of users participate
in email lists.  It might also be the case that mutt is favored by a
fairly narrow class of users who happen to participate on lots of email
lists.  But I don't believe it's reasonable to conclude that a
significant percentage of people who participate in email lists use
mutt.


Well, statistics have been presented showing that that's the case for one
pretty broad but mostly technical selection of mailing lists.  What
statistics do you have to support the alternative position?  You may well
be correct, but I'd really like to see this argued from the vantage point
of firm evidence.


I don't see "fairly sophisticated users who are on a lot of mailing
lists" as the primary audience for this sort of feature.  (where "this
sort of feature" is a general improvement in how replies are handled and
not something that is specific to lists) I see the audience as "users
who use email for more than just occasional personal correspondence".


I'm skeptical, but it would be nice.  I think that even among that
audience, you'll find a larger number of mutt users than you seem to be
expecting.

I have examined 1,516 messages which are a collection of messages
posted to several related announce-only lists plus messages exchanged
by individuals participating in group discussions over a period of
several years w/o a mailing list. These are members of an engineering
professional society unrelated to Internet mail (http://www.smpte.org).
One issues is that not all mailers advertise themselves. Some that do
so use unusual places (e.g. Pine uses the Message-ID field). Among
others, identification may be found in X-Mailer, X-MIMEOLE, User-Agent,
or in one isolated case X-Newsreader fields. Because Message-ID fields
were examined (to find Pine users), there is some remaining cruft.
Messages which could not be attributed to any MUA are grouped together
in a line marked "indeterminate":

    487 Mozilla
    237 Internet Mail Service
    188 Outlook
    120 AT&T Message Center
    102 AOL
     90 Eudora
     67 indeterminate
     45 Lotus Notes Release
     35 Outlook Express
     26 fc
     23 Exchange
     20 Novell GroupWise Internet Agent
     16 Apple Mail
      9 Thunderbird
      7 Atlas Mailer
      6 Entourage
      5 Roving Constant Contact
      3 Springmail
      2 iPlanet Messenger Express
      2 Juno
      1 test
      1 Unknown
      1 OFAAA5FA
      1 OF85256C
      1 OF6C324AB
      1 OF5F926BEC
      1 OF3AD9CEB
      1 Internet Messaging Program
      1 GoldMine
      1 F449LvuKebm4M2S0gUF00000d0b
      1 F42naoBe27dE3Jhv8KT000106ee
      1 F1887LRZY0qVSX2SAEh00010ecf
      1 EMUmail
      1 E187KAc-0005Hg
      1 E17tyFv-0006mU
      1 E17sTLF-0001Ty
      1 E17g6wV-0007EN
      1 E17fb2S-0000do
      1 E17fYh0-0004Ps
      1 Bloomba Professional Edition
      1 7b30e568868c41b584f7cf322ae3a8d
      1 27585ED8A8DCD2118956009027468902BCFF4B
      1 27585ED8A8DCD2118956009027468902BCFF3A
      1 27585ED8A8DCD2118956009027468902BCFF
      1 27585ED8A8DCD2118956009027468902BCFE2C
      1 0I2C00803WCA0Y

Unsurprisingly, mutt isn't even on the list (nor are other character-based-UI
UAs such as Pine and ELM).  The ones identified as "fc" all came from
Message-ID fields and originated at PBS stations; probably an artifact of
whatever MSA/MTA generated Message-IDs. Many of the one-offs are a
result of Message-IDs. Microsoft's products (Outlook, Outlook Express,
Internet Mail Service, Exchange, Entourage) dominate, followed fairly
closely by Mozilla/Thunderbird, with others all fairly far behind.

The same type of analysis of 2,538 recent messages to this mailing list
results in:

    506 Mozilla
    296 indeterminate
    225 Sylpheed
    220 NN
    204 Gnus
    122 Apple Mail
    117 Eudora
    107 Mutt
     89 Pine
     60 The Bat
     41 Outlook Express
     32 Mulberry
     31 OpenXP
     30 Outlook
     28 MimeOLE
     28 KMail
     27 CrossPoint
     14 BatIMail
     10 Lotus Notes
      9 exmh
      9 dtmail
      9 Id
      8 Ximian Evolution
      8 Opera
      8 MR
      8 Exchange
      6 Forte Agent
      5 Z-Mail
      4 PocoMail
      4 Internet Mail Service
      3 mh-e
      3 SquirrelMail
      3 MH-E
      3 Eudora Light
      3 ELM
      2 iqHT6v6wOkZrfnWa4MgHcQ
      2 VM
      2 Mailsmith
      2 Danger Service
      2 CMM
      2 AuvUFTP2Z9Wrz0jrlxdO6Q
      2 01L5QIC3JDLW00Q4RU
      2 01L5QEZ7OYU400Q4RU
      2 01L5JEZZ5EYS00Q4RU
      2 01L5IFYRHAMK00Q4RU
      1 zwZ0W6ZvC
      1 zn9LchILJcKiJfYJ9kyQ8A
      1 z3J6mXZgOKuHdLmvWl5zQw
      1 xqRenBEr5R5kjjJ6Xlpwgw
      1 xaSGldTLm7iOF8wLX6jSrQ
      1 wl0Ru3aMoZ4VmGhmNd1PTg
      1 vyDCOksjW0T5JTUD+zj
      1 vblVCzk7yuOTmh4aNJKFdQ
      1 uUJgMT7Ciu7lztcHxy0FZg
      1 tDL298uKO7MOehILJ2WeWw
      1 tC4hDQnOAEZqtwQUHxZseQ
      1 t5P6YRORQ6bwogKYdWq1ww
      1 sybUXrBvSS0e5J5fjwan1Q
      1 sn21AhOGvpBfnU55O7Wumg
      1 prYqvhAU+WKtGdjb
      1 p06110437bd3d5d396de
      1 p06110411bd46993ab
      1 p06110410bd7887b449c
      1 p0611040fbd492cde8b
      1 p0611040bbd4902ddb2d
      1 p0611040abd461846772d
      1 p06110409bd4614b6a
      1 p06110406bd5ca1d404a
      1 p06110404bd5f11d52c
      1 p06110404bd5dea7e8c
      1 p06110401bd62d06b426d
      1 p0601020abc2d73526fd
      1 p06002021bbc4cab
      1 p05200f24bb99cdacaabd
      1 p05200f23bb99ccf980ea
      1 p05200f22bb99caff09fa
      1 p05200f14bb9bec7f080a
      1 p05200f0cbb9b89b0d
      1 p05200f0bbb9b88ab938c
      1 p05200f0bba7680f98ef
      1 p05200f09bb9b861df9f
      1 p05200f07bb98c00f
      1 p05200f03bb9ddd0137f
      1 p05200f02bb9ddc3808c
      1 p05200f02ba91409579cd
      1 p05200f01bb9b7c55adb
      1 p05200f00bb9b7a713c
      1 p05200e26b9ecc4e303e
      1 p05111a3fb9708269ae
      1 p05111a1cb9748dae
      1 p05111a0fb97a161e0af
      1 p05111a0eb9745555510d
      1 p05111a08b979f6759ee
      1 p05111a08b971d9cc
      1 p05111a02b979cba
      1 p0510034cb98a750b5df
      1 p0510033db98a5c7c98f
      1 p0510032bb93684d40eb
      1 p0510031fb971d00ea5e
      1 p0510031db9c2ed7c528f
      1 p05100311b9f9bca44bfb
      1 p0510030bb9c72a08220a
      1 p0510030ab9ed7c1226d
      1 p0510030ab96db70d
      1 p05100309b93a2c722d1a
      1 p05100307b975886d19a
      1 p05100306b9858ae26f9c
      1 p05100305b9f5285a855b
      1 p05100304b9f69017587e
      1 p05100304b
      1 p05100303b9c410f400cd
      1 p05100303b937439f036f
      1 p05100302b9ac8a2b6b4b
      1 o7jrZVLZd6FgLOH44VcKrQ
      1 neJF6+CS41jHaqMBlY5SAw
      1 kkg5WVwiVSJhjO3CRwJ8sw
      1 kJSYnkehT+XlAJhd+WFXPA
      1 jcOawBbwmd+qp3X6vCA9wQ
      1 iuBsACA1THJrX5vkWtdnZA
      1 h7LVXOlDw
      1 ggchXeRpHsSh
      1 gPUjz2LmGSGnDDQZGeIDgg
      1 fiZK7lbL8FGIdRDHCGmSEA
      1 cLYarZs
      1 aaU2nXcISyi2O16dFAa+dg
      1 aFVEHUCz4vhfZ1BF7VB9wg
      1 a06200a1abd
      1 a06200a06bd5514cf
      1 a06200a05bd5550ce801a
      1 a06000806ba84764bf7eb
      1 YvJ8mKdtbZCPoT3jwVyO0Q
      1 X
      1 VM6xUI48UlTorJXqxfy1iQ
      1 VD0yJWnoH68BDsLtyBBkeg
      1 UkgPy4n1Cl6ncox0Gr7wfQ
      1 UhvnO6pBCBqf2qh75fWJew
      1 Turnpike Integrated
      1 SxZVVwZS5y7TrNpYc+pBjQ
      1 Q9KgRc2Hz1Pk3+n+4RiKEw
      1 PlW8RRS+4JmrXNTlASBtIQ
      1 PSs936ZcbAPmNty5tLclmA
      1 OpPGiAjsOuQ5zgojCvdmcQ
      1 OIyLV7qntjxEzFT1Gw9qGQ
      1 NA4Icnc
      1 Mailsmith Prerelease
      1 MailManager
      1 MMail
      1 MB5TXyMPE3DdvF8zxs0w+g
      1 LlbzzgSu8AhS+pAGh2Dktw
      1 JiOT9YrBJ2kP5pjbaHPDTQ
      1 JX1fmb8yW8DwX79vDkXOvw
      1 IGNkHlX2RIC5Gv0wgJUBGA
      1 HuU1P1DxTyF2kH+Insj8JA
      1 HnMsMI
      1 HM
      1 GrlVRieTpdev7dSqW1k+rw
      1 GUkpu9mSQXLJX
      1 GLMwTG0TieET8A6W53kYvg
      1 Entourage
      1 E7liF9C6446UclpAxR60Qg
      1 E1A5Qly-0001uz
      1 CnENpYZHSfF7oqj6x2nVFw
      1 CXYZ9TunsF0hbc4nRxlidA
      1 CXVLOi727rQudKFH0OpdNw
      1 CLIE Mail
      1 C2UXZ8HuE3NZm2zjleB8iA
      1 BnOPM0iqOnFVUMgIRZ1qsA
      1 B6knpGBu36fZBOwGqIW8fg
      1 AhNFVsj9hZKsigvgZmJFog
      1 906ByjdrGUtL9vQjTs+9KQ
      1 8LEtQCmIAahbHMt36t1tHA
      1 7WsUCIZ
      1 6bMhvPKpbZIIEHDW6ayBrw
      1 4NTjeJVT+0GxTVbd
      1 3ShvKE7rMH8DudtVayqwig
      1 3JZVXnN
      1 1h57AkwLdShKkH1q1I30gw
      1 1aYGbwWRQLpfd4amXcvyBg
      1 02gN6yDPJv+bB4TG5baCjw
      1 01LEEM2T5AT000005R
      1 01LEAB1LVYC000005R
      1 01LE5U6FDLGA00005R
      1 01LE5OQV33N800005R
      1 01LE5MCPBV8G00005R
      1 01LE1VGVOAJM0087C
      1 01LE1V57L3SM0087C
      1 01LE1UZBL64A0087C
      1 01LE1UW084320087C
      1 01LDX31R23EG00005R
      1 01LDTVI1ZMY000005R
      1 01LDTS0X3IE200005R
      1 01LDSZHJYST000005R
      1 01LDSX361EOI00005R
      1 01LDQ56NAXTQ00005R
      1 01LDPF21Z0LQ00005R
      1 01LDP8KE75V400005R
      1 01LDMAZLZG9I0087C
      1 01LDM3NWP1E000005R
      1 01LDM27HCUCO00005R
      1 01LDM23SDIVE00005R
      1 01LD804Z1D2U0061HF
      1 01LD1S0HX57M00005R
      1 01LCN9SPG92Q00005R
      1 01LCJ207ZH9E0061HF
      1 01L5QF7VWKYQ00Q4RU
      1 01L5PLEN33PK00Q4RU
      1 01L5PGPQ2C4S00Q4RU
      1 01L5P3KCJL9O00Q4RU
      1 01L5O60KT45M00Q4RU
      1 01L543ENSLVY00HOW
      1 01L51B2QN2P200NZA
      1 01L4Z0G3HR1W0134RS
      1 01L34N7Q0VXM00HOW
      1 01L33T4X9MMO00HOW
      1 01L2PCC4JBE400HOW
      1 01L2CXCUEAFE00Q4RU
      1 01L1CIWCV8UK002O3W
      1 01L1B5KHQCSS00AIOP
      1 01L16WQ9CGGE00AIOP
      1 01L16ELBAZKM00AIOP
      1 01L16ALA0SA800AIOP
      1 01L15JBKZI4600UICS
      1 01L146MFQL3U00AIOP
      1 01KXFX5UDAES00D1EZ
      1 01KWXELT5VCQ00D1EZ
      1 01KWXCKO7NZA00CUGD
      1 01KVGJD5GAD8007FVT
      1 01KUWU7B2U6I002DEU
      1 01KUWSYUIBQW002DEU
      1 01KT33NZM1YG002DEU
      1 01KT20NGV54G002DEU
      1 01KT0IRFG4WQ002O3W
      1 01KT0EFA1708002O3W
      1 01KT08A2WHUO007FVT
      1 01KSZ8VDV80C002DEU
      1 01KSZ65K873A002DEU
      1 01KSXWTM9YL6002O3W
      1 01KSXQ420128002O3W
      1 01KSW6IRJIEU002DEU
      1 01KSW57NBMJU002DEU
      1 01KSUQ3YIS6O009UB
      1 01KSSWPNAZS0002DEU
      1 01KSS57SEMEQ00AE
      1 01KSS4VOC3UW00AE
      1 01KSQRPDDTPE002DEU
      1 01KSQDUOCSEE002DEU
      1 01KSPRDKTJ7200AE
      1 01KSPHV89YF2002O3W
      1 01KS8NG6MPA2009UB
      1 01KS5OP8K4RO002DEU
      1 01KS089V3Y40002DEU
      1 01KRLYIRSE3W00AE
      1 01KRKJ7GQ3PM009UB
      1 01KRB7W73PXI00AE
      1 01KRAO4HIJ9200AE
      1 01KQXJ08MY2E00AE
      1 01KQXI2CVYEC00AE
      1 01KQXG8HY0CM00AE
      1 01KQTWL8HOKY009OMN
      1 01KQT7J5O71Y009OMN
      1 01KQSPWQZ4GI009OMN
      1 01KQSMDJEP9A009OMN
      1 01KQR2TXIGII009OMN
      1 01KQPSV8ZVPS009OMN
      1 01KQ684QLEX2001ZTY
      1 01KPBK83BHRI004VR
      1 01KOYW4ODO5U004XU
      1 01KOYU1DXQOI004XU
      1 01KOT9MFPS1C004XU
      1 01KNDO3BOV7600628S
      1 01KLJZFE40HA0001B
      1 01KLBOH06IB60001B
      1 01KLAG31RZ4A0001B
      1 01KKZOLNW0UA0001B
      1 01KIVW17LTEU000NJJ
      1 01KIUYLDQDJ0000NJJ
      1 01KIRL1NPHEQ001HMU
      1 01KIKXB7DOIA0001B
      1 01KIJ96XDENO0001B
      1 01KIJ8EYUI4U0001B
      1 01KHUAVKP2CW000ASW
      1 +zqc
      1 +w9mA+77oX2cNSsgf1BqZg

Mutt accounts for about 4% of the messages, far behind Mozilla, Microsoft's
Outlook variants (Outlook, Outlook Express, MIMEOLE, Exchange, Internet Mail
Service, Entourage, etc.), Eudora variants and look-alikes (e.g Sylpheed).