Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions
2004-11-30 18:09:29
The "[listname]" insertion is clearly the "sore point" case. This is
natural because it seems to defy the otherwise reasonable-sounding
rule that i myself proposed, which is that the Subject field is for
human beings. However, I'm not sure that this is really as bad a
layering violation as it might seem. While the list processor is
indeed inserting something into the "human" part of the stream, it is
(at least in theory) doing so in accord with a policy set by a list
owner. A list owner should be able to choose to insert any strings he
wants to in messages that go through his list, to convey a meaning
that he wants to convey. The fact that list processors make it so
easy to insert such strings may be simply a reflection of the fact
that so many list owners want to be able to do that. But they want it
for its human meaning, not for any intended protocol consequences.
I see (at least) two distinct kinds of badness associated with
[listname] tags. One is that they get in the way of searches,
comparisons, display, etc. so there's a temptation to remove or ignore
them just as with Re:, Fwd: and similar tags.
The other is the harm to transparency - these tags alter the message
content from what the original author intended. Footers added by lists
cause the same kinds of problems. This begs the question - is the
purpose of the list to be a transparent multicast channel or is it an
original source of content? In many cases the same content that is
submitted to a list is also transmitted to other recipients, who will
think they're all receiving the same message - but they're not.
While a case can probably be made that at least a few lists should be
content sources, IMHO lists that alter subject fields or message bodies
should also alter other portions of the message to avoid confusion with
the message as originally written by the author. For instance, the
message-id should be changed, in-reply-to and references fields should
be cleared or altered, etc.
As for the "dog" analogy: we can scarcely prevent any kind of protocol
violation. But we can at least point out that some practices are
undesirable and try to discourage them.
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- Re: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, (continued)
- MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Keith Moore
- Company-Confidential indication, Bruce Lilly
- Re: Company-Confidential indication, Keith Moore
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Steve Dorner
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions,
Keith Moore <=
- MoreOn: Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: MoreOn: Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Keith Moore
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Keith Moore
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Steve Dorner
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Keith Moore
- MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Bruce Lilly
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Keith Moore
- Subject field hacks and machine processing of "only human-readable information", Bruce Lilly
- Re: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Keith Moore
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