Re: MoreOn: Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions
2004-11-30 19:50:53
I see (at least) two distinct kinds of badness associated with
[listname] tags. One is that they get in the way of searches,
comparisons, display, etc. so there's a temptation to remove or
ignore them just as with Re:, Fwd: and similar tags.
I'm not sure this is a problem. Is it a problem if a search engine
builds in a smart spelling algorithm, so that searching for "colour"
finds "color" and "collor"? It seems to me that a similarly "smart"
email system would build in heuristics based on common human email
conventions. Where's the problem?
one man's crisis is another man's opportunity :)
The other is the harm to transparency - these tags alter the message
content from what the original author intended. Footers added by
lists cause the same kinds of problems. This begs the question - is
the purpose of the list to be a transparent multicast channel or is
it an original source of content?
As usual, you've asked precisely the right question. I think it
points to the fundamentally human element here, which is that some
lists have the former purpose and some the latter. One might
taxonimize them as "transparent mailing lists," "header-modifying
mailing lists," "body-modifying mailing lists," and "non-transparent
mailing lists." Any of these might reflect a reasonably legitimate
set of needs on the part of the list owner. I think we just have to
deal with it. It might be nice, however, if there were a way to tell
the difference.
Some lists definitely have a purpose at one or the other of the
extremes. But I'm seeing a lot of lists that are mostly transparent,
but still want to make minor modifications - usually either to
"enhance" the user's experience or to help pay for the list service.
Unfortunately, short-term "enhancements" often produce dysfunctional
behavior in the long term. As for "legitimate needs" - I'd say there
are desires of list owners and desires of list users and they're often
in conflict. For that matter, the desire of one list user is often in
conflict with the desires of another. But some of these desires are
fairly benign, while others, if implemented, impair the ability of the
mail system to evolve to better accommodate users.
For instance, the message-id should be changed, in-reply-to and
references fields should be cleared or altered, etc.
Or, perhaps, a "List-modifications" field could be defined.
As for the "dog" analogy: we can scarcely prevent any kind of
protocol violation. But we can at least point out that some
practices are undesirable and try to discourage them.
Perhaps we need the equivalent of a "Curb Your Dog" sign for mail sent
to mailing lists? A "please don't screw with this message" flag?
Would that be useful in any way?
well, most people understand that it's not acceptable to let their dogs
urinate anywhere they want to...that's why they take them outside at
regular intervals. so maybe we need the equivalent of designated
doggie walks for list owners :)
Keith
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- Re: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, (continued)
- MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Keith Moore
- Company-Confidential indication, Bruce Lilly
- Re: Company-Confidential indication, Keith Moore
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Steve Dorner
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Keith Moore
- MoreOn: Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: MoreOn: Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions,
Keith Moore <=
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Keith Moore
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Steve Dorner
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Keith Moore
- MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Bruce Lilly
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Keith Moore
- Subject field hacks and machine processing of "only human-readable information", Bruce Lilly
- Re: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Keith Moore
- Re: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Keith Moore
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