MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions
2004-11-30 17:16:35
Distinguished and revered colleagues,
I think we need to distinguish between human-level conventions and
protocol elements. Any "harmfulness" in the former is not something
that can be addressed technically.
When you choose the "Reply" function in your MUA, and it gives you a
window in which the subject has been initialized to "Re: <old
subject>," this is at best a "helpful suggestion" from your MUA,
because you can always change it. In the case of this particular
message, for example, I decided to change it to "MoreOn" and no harm
was done, unless someone chose to regard it as an insulting pun. (And
don't tell me that your mail reader needs "Re:" for message threading,
because if your MUA can't get thread info from the In-Reply-To field,
it isn't trying hard enough.)
Ultimately, the user-editability of "Subject" makes it almost valueless
as a machine-usable protocol, but highly valuable for interpersonal
conventions. We should not be surprised, however, if different
conventions arise among different subcultures, perhaps with subtly
different semantics. In fact, this happens all the time -- some email
communities already have informal but quite complex norms for making
their subjects "more useful" at the human level. (I put "more useful"
in quotes because they aren't always more useful -- at IBM,
confidential messages often start with an "IBM Confidential and
Proprietary" prefix that is so long as to eclipse all information in
the subject, but it is a convention which is almost mandatory within
the company.) This is not a problem of protocol design -- it is simply
a reality of evolving human norms and etiquette.
Thus, if you want to put data into a message that is intended to convey
meaning reliably to a piece of software, you shouldn't put it in the
Subject field. Arguing over the "right" way to do "Re:" or "Fwd:" or
"[ietf-822]" is about as technically useful as arguing over the right
greeting or salutation for an email message, because ultimately the
user controls it, not the software. I have the right to greet you all
as "distinguished and revered colleagues" if I'm so inclined, right?
Y.O.S.,
nsb
On Nov 30, 2004, at 6:27 PM, Keith Moore wrote:
Bruce Lilly writes:
I do think there's a significant difference between conventions for
the
Subject field that the message author (or the author's MUA) uses to
indicate information about the content, and alterations to the
Subject
field that are done by intermediaries.
There may be a distinction in the mind of a message author or
UA software author. But once the message is sent, there's no
way to reliably differentiate "a short string identifying the topic
of the message" from any cruft that may have been added (as
demonstrated by the various "Re: " examples).
what's wrong with abbreviations? why should I have to say "reply to
your message: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions" instead of
using "Re:"? more to the point, why is it a bad idea for the subject
to indicate that the message is a reply or some other kind of
response? why is it a bad idea for the subject to give some
indication of message topic? where do you draw the line between what
belongs in the subject and what belongs elsewhere?
I don't think this is cruft - I think it's useful information that
reasonably belongs in the subject field. what's broken is something
else - perhaps our expectation that all messages in a thread should
have the same subject.
Keith
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- Re: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, (continued)
- Re: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Bruce Lilly
- Re: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Keith Moore
- MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions,
Nathaniel Borenstein <=
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Keith Moore
- Company-Confidential indication, Bruce Lilly
- Re: Company-Confidential indication, Keith Moore
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Steve Dorner
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Keith Moore
- MoreOn: Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: MoreOn: Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Keith Moore
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Keith Moore
- Re: MoreOn: Attempts at establishing harmful conventions, Steve Dorner
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