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Re: [Asrg] MTP draft

2003-03-04 13:49:27
From: Brad Templeton <brad(_at_)templetons(_dot_)com>

...
Actually, while UBE is a fairly common definition used, it has
a number of flaws.  To wit, I send UBE, and so do many people.

I have a party-invite mailing list. ...

That does not sound like unsolicited bulk email.  It was solicited by
the recipeints when they gave you their addresses.  Moreover, I doubt
you send any invitations to people who you even suspect might object,
which is to say, you only send solicited invitiations.  That you don't
get a contract signed in blood when you collect mail addresses does
not make your mail unsolicited.

At the same time, unsolicited is in fact hard to define.  If you buy
a product from a company, surely they can mail you about a product
recall or bug fix, right?  That's not unsolicited, is it?  What about
an upgrade? A related product?  A totally new offer?

That forces you to draw a subjective line.

Yes, the definition of "unsolicited" is usually subjective.  It's in
the mind of the mail recipient unless the sender has some record.
This is a good thing.  It ensures that bulk mail senders err on the
side of not sending.

(The record bit is to deal with the common idiot lusers who unsubscribe
from legitimate mailing lists by screaming "SPAM!")


That's why I settled on "from a stranger" which a non-stranger being
somebody you have initiated contact with.

"From a stranger" is related to "solicited," and has worse problem.
On one hand, it's easy to think of cases, albeit unusual, where bulk
mail from strangers is solicited.  On the other "initiated contact"
and "stranger" are just as fuzzy as "solicit."  You can't make
the notion completely precise.  Slathering additional fuzzy notions
on the basic idea of "mail I don't won't" does not help.

This is an entirely factual test, not subjective.

No, "stranger" in practice is just as fuzzy and subjective as "solicited."
Exactly what transactions make you other than a stranger?  How about
visiting a web site with an old browser that leaks mail addresses?
What about walking around a trade show with a name tag that has your
mail address?

When "stranger" works as you want it to, it yields the same results
as "UBE."  When "UBE" honestly does not work, neither will "stranger"


                                                   And while it
does allow the company you buy stuff from to mail you. the truth
is the amount of unwanted mail I get from non-strangers is
insignificant.   And that level of volume == victory over spam.

Can you opt-out when originally becoming a non-stranger, such as
by buying?  I hope so.

I have added one modification to my definition in the form of a
rule.     Namely a requirement to have a working unsubscribe.  So
that even if somebody is not a stranger, if you have told them not
to bulk mail you, and they do, it's a spam.

The trouble with that is in practice it would be the same as either
opt-out or UBE.  Non-spammers will have records showing you contacted
them and asked for their bulk mail.  Spammers will have inventions
"proving" you and they are not "strangers."  For example, one spammer
claimed to have obtained my address from my having signed up or left
my business card at a trade show.  The spam was for decals that look
like bullet holes.  That was a lie, but it demonstrates the problem.


Vernon Schryver    vjs(_at_)rhyolite(_dot_)com

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