This is not in response to just the last message, but to the set of recent
messages on this thread.
I believe that this thread has run out of usefulness.
While the original thoughts were well-intentioned, we are now in a state of
subjective arguments. If anyone would like to continue this conversation,
please do so only with objective quantitative data. A more productive thread
that was started from this conversation is "Measurements on spam". Many of
the things that are being debated on this thread could be answered with such
data.
-----Original Message-----
From: Vernon Schryver [mailto:vjs(_at_)calcite(_dot_)rhyolite(_dot_)com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 7:30 PM
To: Asrg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: RE: [Asrg] Lets Fix Mailing Lists
From: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" <pbaker(_at_)verisign(_dot_)com>
...
I think it is legitimate in a very honest sense to consider email
forged if the manner in which it is sent is not approved by the
owner of the DNS zone.
...
However mail claiming to come from hotmail that does not
come through
their servers can be honestly and legitimately considered
forged, or
to coin a phrase 'Notmail'.
Please show evidence other than your personal assurance that
Hotmail does not knowingly and intentionally sanction the
very common practice of using Hotmail addresses as
legitimate, non-commercial drop-boxes. WIthout such evidence,
it is at best disingenuous to say that mail with Hotmail
return addresses from non-Hotmail IP addresses is forged or
falsely and fraudulently marked.
I think this is a better idea than deciding that we are going to
rule all freemail to be illegitimate because we don't use it and
so think that the 50 million odd who do are less important than
the right to send email any way we chose.
Please stop your habit of intentionally misrepresenting my words.
I said nothing about ruling free mail to be illegitimate. I
did say that if the public understood how much free mail is
illegitimate, less of the public would want to have anything
to do with free providers.
Lots of our consultants use hotmail because they can't access the
corporate mail systems while on customer's premises (I know, Rim
pagers...)
This would be further improved if the email clients would tell the
user trying to enter a fake email address 'hey dude, you know that
some spam filters might consider your configuration invalid'.
Such a warning should also say "Hey dude, many spam filters
reject all mail apparently from free providers because so
much of it is spam."
The number of outfits and individuals that reject all mail
nominally from Hotmail or Yahoo except for a few whitelist
entries is large and suprisingly large.
Vernon Schryver vjs(_at_)rhyolite(_dot_)com
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