On Monday, March 31, 2003 10:27 AM, Kee Hinckley
[SMTP:nazgul(_at_)somewhere(_dot_)com]
wrote:
At 11:59 PM -0700 3/30/03, Vernon Schryver wrote:
This little drama is related to the spam problem. There is a component
of human nature that hates purposefully not being heard. Senders of
bulk advertising are often irrationally upset about being filtered.
You skipped from "humans" to "senders of bulk advertising" very
nicely there. You weren't cutting off a sender of bulk advertising.
...
Indeed, but IMHO think that part of the issue is off topic for this group. more
below...
This whole conversation has been very educational.
I also concur here. Some of the inter-personal dynamics on this list (and I
really do hate to say this, please forgive me) have ranged in the short time
I've been subscribed between merely anti-social to juvenile. I hope it will
stop and we can get to some serious engineering work amongst the obvious very
talented minds on this list. It really is not worthy of the talents assembled
here to continue to descend into some (not by any means all) off-topic
discussions that do not help assemble our collective consensus or develop any
solutions. My sense is people should endeavor to check there ego's at the
door, and that of course includes me as well.
...
If this is going to be typical of people's use of anti-spam tools
then I think we should give some serious thought to the UI of such
tools.
I am not sure what bearing that would have on a UI of any product that would be
developers or marketers preference, but I do take your point that some of the
conversation has been enlightening with respect to how sociology can and has
colored the issue we are dealing with. It is an interesting observation, but
again I think too deep and detailed a matter for consideration by this group in
which we all seek to contribute something relevant to the goals. An
interesting study for someone but not IMHO on the track.
This is a request. We all no the standards of the IETF and its working groups,
and the methods for engineering a solution as a team (I suspect many if not all
of the people on this list have done that before and currently). We are a
group of very talented individuals and organizations, including some who have
authored the very standards and protocols we are considering, not to mention
having developed the methodology of this research group. Everyone should take
a breath and stop to listen and reduce the chatter for a moment at least to
reflect on why and whether they really want to participate in forming a
solution. Check your ego, not your opinions and ideas at the door. Be
prepared to consider a different point of view. Be flexible, we all must
concede to some compromises in order to form a consensus. A solution may not
be achievable, but its always worth a shot. If you are dis-heartened with the
results, take a step back and see how you may re-enter with a new innovative
way to approach the issue.
These are some of the keys to developing a solution in this environment. I hope
we can utilize these methods to the greatest extent possible. This is a
technical forum and although some of the issues presented and discussed may not
all be 'technical' or amenable to a 'technical' solution, we should always
strive or reach for a solution from such a standpoint. Thanks for listening.
Let's get to work. :-)
-e
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