ietf-asrg
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Re: [Asrg] In case anyone thought Barry was exaggerating

2003-06-29 09:52:43
Vernon Schryver <vjs(_at_)calcite(_dot_)rhyolite(_dot_)com> wrote:
Mr. DeKok has shown his hand (IMHO) in his comment (again).  He is one
of the respected leaders and gurus of spam fighting here to order the
efforts of the designers, coders, implementors, testers, and installers.

  Unlike others here (pointedly pointing), I've never claimed to be a
leader, an expert, a guru, or any other kind of wonderful person
relating to spam fighting.  I do, however, claim to believe my
opinions are worth something.  I also claim to be able to show logical
errors and inconsistencies in the arguments of others.

  I've never claimed or tried to "order the efforts" of anyone.

  Vernon, please don't create & attack straw men.  It wastes your
valuable time.

  But band-aids aren't considered good patient care.  Cures are.

By that reasoning, absolutely no spam solution is good, because
absolutely no spam solution can cure spam.

  Once again, you're stuck on absolutes.  As my messages to this list
have repeatedly demonstrated, I do not propose or believe in
absolutes, or perfect solutions.  The only way my statement can be
intrpreted as an absolute is by ignoring all of my previous history in
this list.

There's no opposition to *doing* things.

  I disagree.  You have consistently opposed (or silently ignored) any
request which would even potentially discuss having you change your
network behaviour.

 You are welcome to stop leading and teaching and switch to doing.

  Since I've never said I *wasn't*, this is another straw man.

 You could take the best of the unjustly criticized ideas and
implement and deploy it, but you won't.

  <shrug>  Another absolute statement from someone who's unaware of my
off-ASRG activities.

The most common response to my charge is something about the
unfairness of entrenched monopolies and that someone should force
the doers of the world to do as the self-described experts direct.

  ... which leads to very nice dictatorial regimes for the experts,
and horrible evil for everyone else.

That's ever the case with real research.  Van Jacobson didn't have
a fraction as much to say about the major problems in the Internet
as others did before (or after) he designed, implemented, tested,
and deployed slow start.

  Ah, that's my mistake.  I had assumed that ASRG was here to allow us
to reach consensus on the problem, and approaches to a solution.  I
see now that we should go back to *real* experts like Van Jacobson,
and not self-appointed experts, like, well..., not me.

  But who decides, Vernon?

  Alan DeKok.

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