Re: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis

At 03:26 AM 7/6/2003 +0000, Mark McCarron wrote:

> Version 0.005 - Updated 6th July 2003
>
> GIEIS - Global ISP Email Identity System - The Ultimate Anti-Spam System
> a.k.a. - The Digital Reaper
>
> © Including intellectual copyright, Mark McCarron 2003, All rights reserved
>
>
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/giza.necropolis/
>
> Mark McCarron.
>
>
> > From: Yakov Shafranovich <research(_at_)solidmatrix(_dot_)com>
> > To: "Mark McCarron" 
> > <markmccarron_itt(_at_)hotmail(_dot_)com>,asrg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
> > Subject: Re: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis
> > Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 22:37:34 -0400
> >
> > At 02:31 AM 7/6/2003 +0000, Mark McCarron wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > From: Yakov Shafranovich <research(_at_)solidmatrix(_dot_)com>
> > > > To: "Mark McCarron" <markmccarron_itt(_at_)hotmail(_dot_)com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis
> > > > Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 22:16:34 -0400
> > > >
> > > > At 02:21 AM 7/5/2003 +0000, you wrote:
> > > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > > Message: 29
> > > > > > Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 17:02:47 -0400
> > > > > > To: "Mark McCarron" <markmccarron_itt(_at_)hotmail(_dot_)com>, 
> > > > > > asrg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
> > > > > > From: Yakov Shafranovich <research(_at_)solidmatrix(_dot_)com>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At 08:48 PM 7/4/2003 +0000, Mark McCarron wrote:
> > > > > > >...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>-- __--__--
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Message: 13
> > > > > > >>Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 22:32:27 -0400
> > > > > > >>To: "Mark McCarron" <markmccarron_itt(_at_)hotmail(_dot_)com>, 
> > > > > > asrg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
> > > > > > >>From: Yakov Shafranovich <research(_at_)solidmatrix(_dot_)com>
> > > > > > >>Subject: 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS (was Re: [Asrg] Re:
> > > > > > >>   'GIEIS' - The Fourth Response (Esa Laitinen))
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Mr. McCarron,
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Case in point:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>On July 1st EU countries started charging VAT taxes on most digital
> > > > > > >>transactions performed by non-EU companies to EU consumers. EU 
> > > > > > laws seem to
> > > > > > >>apply here to companies outside the jurisdiction of the EU.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Mark's Response:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >This is really import duty, a taxsation on goods imported into a
> > > > > > >country/region.  This has two main puposes, generate revenue and to
> > > > > > >stabilize economies from the impact of cheap imports.  This is a
> > > > > > >completely different legal area than a port scan.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I will spell it out: EU LAWS SEEM TO APPLY HERE TO COMPANIES OUTSIDE THE
> > > > > > JURISDICTION OF THE EU. That was the point I was trying to make.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mark's Response:
> > > > >
> > > > > You spell things out when you type anyway, so a bit redundant.  Let me 
> > > > > make this point clear, the tax is applied to companies within the EU 
> > > > > boundries when importing.  Nothing to do with anything outside its 
> > > > > jurisdiction.
> > > > The VAT taxes are being applied to companies that are Internet based 
> > > > and are located outside the EU. Having their digital products 
> > > > downloaded on their territory OUTSIDE the EU where the download server 
> > > > is based, by people present inside the EU puts them under the EU . The 
> > > > EU feels that its laws apply to anyone outside the EU itself AS LONG AS 
> > > > they interact with EU citizens. By extension port scanning servers 
> > > > based in EU even thought you are outside of the EU will make you come 
> > > > under the laws of the EU since you are interacting with EU citizens. 
> > > > The same logic also underlies the EU privacy laws which apply to 
> > > > companies outside the EU if they interact with citizens within the EU.
> > > Mark's Response:
> > >
> > > It is still import duty and deals only with those inside the EU.  Laws 
> > > cannot be outside any legal juristiction they represent.
> > And how does the EU plan on collection VAT taxes in this case? Apparently 
> > they feel that if a company interacts with a EU citizen within the EU 
> > portion of cyberspace, that is enough to put the company into EU's legal 
> > jurisdiction.
> Mark's Response:
>
> The duty is collected from those within the EU jurisdiction.  It is not 
> collected from those external companies.
From (http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,52325,00.html):

"Under the EU bill, U.S. and other non-EU firms will be asked for the first 
time to levy value-added tax on e-commerce with private customers in the 
15-nation bloc. "  

_______________________________________________
Asrg mailing list
Asrg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg