Re: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis
2003-07-06 09:08:34
Thankyou for your comments. This post relates to the 'GIEIS' system.
Please find my response in the body of the message below.
Version 0.005 - Updated 6th July 2003
GIEIS - Global ISP Email Identity System - The Ultimate Anti-Spam System
a.k.a. - The Digital Reaper
\xA9 Including intellectual copyright, Mark McCarron 2003, All rights reserved.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/giza.necropolis
Mark McCarron.
From: Yakov Shafranovich <research(_at_)solidmatrix(_dot_)com>
To: "Mark McCarron"
<markmccarron_itt(_at_)hotmail(_dot_)com>,asrg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: Re: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 11:43:57 -0400
At 03:08 PM 7/6/2003 +0000, Mark McCarron wrote:
....
From: Yakov Shafranovich <research(_at_)solidmatrix(_dot_)com>
To: "Mark McCarron"
<markmccarron_itt(_at_)hotmail(_dot_)com>,asrg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: Re: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 00:02:05 -0400
At 03:47 AM 7/6/2003 +0000, Mark McCarron wrote:
...
4. Participate in defining the consent framework.
Mark's Response:
The consent framework will consist of white and black lists. There
will be no greylisting. A complete opt-out will be allowed by
'GIEIS'.
The group's consent framework is what we are currently working on.
Mark's Response:
With all the self-interested posts that appear here with inaccurate
information, a coherent consent framework is highly unlikely to develop.
We are chartered to created such framework
(http://www.irtf.org/charters/asrg.html) and a draft is available. If you
had been following the discussions for the last few days you would have
seen that they are concentrated on that framework. If you do not wish to
contribute to anything else than your own proposal, then create your own
mailing list for its discussion and leave the group. This is what the
author of the SPF proposal did.
Mark's Response:
I have been following the discussion for the last few days. Frankly, I
have never seen so much nonsense posted in such a short period of time.
The 'consent framework' is a few hours worth of work at most and full of
things that are already known or done, how long did it take the group to
develop this?? Since its creation???
Nevertheless its what we are chartered to do. If you think its a bunch of
non-sense then either start commenting on specific parts or LEAVE. We were
chartered by the IRTF to create it and that's what we are doing. The IMPP
WG also started with a model so its not an uncommon practice to start of
with an abstract model and then go on to specific solutions.
Mark's Response:
This issue has been well defined and the problem understood. The 'Asrg' is
just going around in circles. I will start commenting on the proposals, in
fact, every last one. I'll soon remove the nonsense that appears here.
It is not in the financial interests of this group to develop a solution
as it would put the majority of posters and their associated firms
completely out of business. Thus, to anyone with any knowledge of the
subject, it is very clear when people run around in circles deliberatly to
prevent solutions from being developed. This is a daily occurance at the
Asrg.
There are many people present in the group that do not have financial
interests involved. Do not draw conclusions.
Mark's Response:
I am drawing conclusions based on what has been posted to this group not on
those remaining silent.
Additionally, this is a technical forum not a Madison Avenue marketing
firm. We are not interested in your marketing materials, or promises of
salvation from porn and spam. We are looking at technical details only
and do not wish to be informed of "how many jobs" your proposal will
create or how much money it will make.
Mark's Response:
So, this is what you call a technical forum?? Hardly any of you could
understand the 'GIEIS' system until big daigrams appeared. Furthermore,
the issue lies solely at the SMTP protocol and the existing architecture
of the Internet. Nowhere else. It can never be fixed unless 'GIEIS' is
implemented.
We understood your proposal the first time. Its just that no one bothered
to analyze it until it got too annoying. IN YOUR OPINION, if the ultimate
solution for spam has already been developed (GIEIS) why bother having this
group? Why not disband the group and start implementing GIEIS? This group
wants to look at all the proposals not just yours, so why don't you create
a separate mailing list for your project while giving us the time to look
at everything else? Since we are "lost souls" already since we do not want
to accept GIEIS due to "conflicts of interest" why stay here? OR is it
because you want to gain the authority granted by the IRTF? The IRTF DOES
NOT HAVE POWER to develop standards, the IETF does. If you wish your system
to be standardized then write an Internet Draft and submit it to the RFC
Editor. Individuals have full power to do so without being affiliated with
specific groups.
Mark's Response:
No, you could barely grasp it a few posts ago. In fact, I have corrected
you enough times on the matter. I would be happy to let this group discuss
all the proposals it wants to provided they are legitimate proposals. Most
of the 'technical posts' have contained either nonsense or things that can
be bypassed. Other than 'GIEIS', there are no proposals even worth
considering as EVERYTHING else can be bypassed. I am not here just to
inform you of 'GIEIS' but to point out the fact that it can't be solved in
any other fashion. Please post your solutions and I will demonstrate this
for EVERY single one.
The 'frameworks' and 'solutions' that have appeared in this forum defy
even common sense at times, let alone technical reasoning. If you want a
forum were businesses prevent the development of solutions, the the Asrg
is becoming very close to it. Almost everyone, including the current
chair, has open conflicts of interest in regards to the issue of spam.
There are over 800 people on the list, many of which have no connection to
spam and no conflicts. Do not draw conclusions from a small sample.
Mark's Response:
I am drawing my conclusions based upon what I seen and read here only.
In the past, Internet architecture has been an open affair for all to
contribute too. Due to the large sums of money now involved this practice
will most likely be discontinued due to the conflicts of interest present.
Honestly, do you really think no one would notice that 99% of postings
made to this group are junk designed to keep the issue going??
Speak for yourself. Although this group has its problems, the IRTF and IAB
are aware of them, and trying to fix them.
Mark's Response:
How long have these 'problems' been present for?
Mark McCarron.
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- Re: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis, (continued)
- Re: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis, Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis, Mark McCarron
- RE: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis, Mark McCarron
- RE: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis, Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis, Mark McCarron
- [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis, Mark McCarron
- Re: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis, Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis,
Mark McCarron <=
- Re: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis, Mark McCarron
- RE: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis, Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis, Mark McCarron
- [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis, Mark McCarron
- [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis, Mark McCarron
- RE: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis, Paul Judge
- Re: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis, John Fenley
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