Re: [Asrg] Spam, defined, and permissions

Well, it seems to me that INCREMENTALLY you have to provide more
backups and potential restores and staff to do all that and disk
controllers and network bandwidth and real estate and environmental
(electricity, air conditioning, etc) and management of all that etc.
as well as the cost (well, negative cash flow) imposed by depreciation
schedules, ROI, etc.

But if you want to ignore all that other stuff then you're more than
right, because you may as well ignore the cost of the disk space also,
it's only a small percentage of all that, so INCREMENTALLY infinite
disk space is FREE!

Need I go on?


On December 24, 2004 at 02:01 gep2(_at_)terabites(_dot_)com 
(gep2(_at_)terabites(_dot_)com) wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Barry Shein <bzs(_at_)world(_dot_)std(_dot_)com> wrote:
> > On December 23, 2004 at 21:10 gep2(_at_)terabites(_dot_)com 
> > (gep2(_at_)terabites(_dot_)com) wrote:
> > > So, in that case, if we presume that the sample is representative, that 
> would 
> > > suggest that the total storage used in spam folders is about 6Gb (so 
> > > maybe 
> $6 
> > > worth of mirrored disk space, purchase cost).  Certainly doesn't sound 
> excessive 
> > > to me.
> > It's as sensible to speak of managed disk space in terms of commodity
> > disk prices as it is to speak of office space rental costs measured
> > exclusively by the floor covering used (e.g., price per sq foot should
> > be about the same as the cost per sq foot of linoleum.)
> >
> > If there is any doubt about that go buy whatever disk you like and
> > stick it in your lap and stop being concerned about what ISPs charge.
> >
> > Obviously a disk sitting in your lap (no I didn't say laptop) is not a
> > very useful thing.
> >
> > So some sort of value has been added to that disk.
> Fine, but most or all of that "value added" is more than adequately covered 
> by 
> the price that the ISP is charging their customer.  The service the CUSTOMER 
> is 
> paying for is the whole package of what the ISP does, including storing and 
> forwarding the customer's mail.
>
> The difference of storing, verus not storing, the spam or whatever is 
> INCREMENTALLY the difference in the cost of the hard drive space used to 
> store 
> it.  And that's my point... that the price of (even) an extra terabyte of 
> mirrored hard disk space is about $1K, which truly is NOT significant in 
> terms 
> of what the ISP's overall operating/capital expenses are.
>
> So all this whinging about the disk space involved is really awfully silly.
>
> > That added value probably exceeds the underlying cost of the disk
> > manifold.
> Of course, but the INCREMENTAL cost is what we're talking about, and the 
> INCREMENTAL cost of disk storage is NOT reflected in any significant way in 
> an 
> incremental cost of the other expenses the ISP has... office rental, 
> charitable 
> donations, utilities, personnel, and so forth... and MIGHT even result in a 
> SAVINGS given that it gives the ISP a material and relevant point that might 
> set 
> them aside from the competition, giving them product/service differentiation 
> and 
> perhaps actually REDUCING the money they have to spend on marketing to 
> attract 
> new customers, and retain existing ones.  
>
> > It includes system staff, support staff, management, general business
> > costs (e.g., taxes), backups, service contracts, climate control,
> > rent, disk controllers and the systems they're hooked up to, network
> > and network infrastructure, WAN connection(s), and god forbid maybe
> > even a little profit.
> But in ANY case, $1K more or less simply isn't a big deal in terms of ISP 
> capital investment, so there's little or no reason for us to worry 
> significantly 
> about it *here*.  Other things we commonly discuss here have MUCH more 
> significant operating cost and support cost implications.
>
> > But to compare disk space at ISPs as being worth about $1/GB bypasses
> > reality quite cleanly and completely.
> Perhaps, but that's still the INCREMENTAL cost, and that's what matters for 
> OUR 
> purposes here (i.e. comparing two approaches which might use slightly more 
> or 
> slightly less disk space).
>
> Gordon Peterson                  http://personal.terabites.com/
> 1977-2002  Twenty-fifth anniversary year of Local Area Networking!
> Support free and fair US elections!  http://stickers.defend-democracy.org
> 12/19/98: Partisan Republicans scornfully ignore the voters they "represent".
> 12/09/00: the date the Republican Party took down democracy in America.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Asrg mailing list
> Asrg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg
-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs(_at_)TheWorld(_dot_)com           | 
http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD
The World              | Public Access Internet     | Since 1989     *oo*

_______________________________________________
Asrg mailing list
Asrg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg