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RE: TECH-ERROR: SenderID sets recomendation for forwarders that are not compatible with RFC 2822

2004-09-17 13:57:20

Sorry for my delay in responding. It's been one of those months. (Maybe one of those quarters. *sigh*). I had a read through the DRUMS archive (boy, was that unpleasant) and some personal mail on the topic. Let me attempt to answer a few things. I don't know if this is going to help:

1. Yes, the reason we called out "forwarding" as distinct from use of the Resent-* fields was in part because 822 (and a good number of people for many years) conflated "forwarding" with "redirecting" and "resending" and a host of other labels. So we defined the two senses of forwarding ((a) including a previous message in an entirely new message and (b) relaying from the MTA level) and said that Resent-* fields were not to be used in either case.

2. The use of .forward files is a horrible canonical example of anything. The problem is that .forward files were historically implemented using exactly the same MTA mechanism as alias files used in relaying. In both of those cases, the original MAIL FROM was preserved by the MTA and therefore was clearly not a case of "delivered and then resent." I definitely had some discussion with folks about whether or not Resent-* fields would be desirable in the .forward case and we didn't come to a strong conclusion.

3. The fact of the matter is that historically .forward files did not generate Resent-* and that's part of why we said not to put Resent-* fields on forwarded messages. With all due deference to Jim, you do *not* read IETF standards like a lawyer. IETF standards are, for most intents and purposes, de facto standards: We are documenting what's out there (or what we expect to be out there) so that everyone can do it the same and interoperate well together, and we're trying to be as precise as possible so that programmers can do what they need to do. We're not trying to write laws that people should interpret as best they can. We're trying to write down exactly what everyone is (and should be) doing. Occasionally, we don't do as well as we'd like.

4. I don't think there is anything inconsistent with 2822 in implementing an "automatic resend" function and putting Resent-* fields on those messages. But in that case, I would expect the bounce (MAIL FROM) address to be identical to the Resent-From/Resent-Sender address and that the resender would be able to receive and act on those bounces. Semantically, I see resending as making the *content* of the message appear end-to-end from original sender to resent recipient, but that has nothing to do with making the *transport* of the message appear end-to-end between original sender and resent recipient. MTA-level relaying makes the transport appear end-to-end even though there is this "forwarding" step in the middle, and IMO that shouldn't be using Resent-* fields.

My read is that the intent of SenderID is to eliminate all MTA-level relaying and require it to be changed to automatic resending instead. That may be OK, but understand that this is what you are doing.

Does that help?
--
Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
QUALCOMM Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102


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