ietf
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100

2016-05-25 17:42:05
After the first message on from the IAOC related to this announcement, I
asked a clarifying question of the IAOC on their understanding of what
"Singapore can function as a meeting location for IETF100" entailed (see
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg98101.html).  In
Leslie's mail of the 23rd (
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg98176.html), there was
an acknowledgement that the IAOC had not yet responded to this request.

If this message is meant to contain that response, I do not find it.  I
would like to know if the IAOC has an answer or, if not, when it expects to
provide one.

Ted Hardie

On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 3:08 PM, IAOC Chair <iaoc-chair(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org> 
wrote:

All,

In the IAOC's previous message on this topic we stated that the IAOC
believed that it is possible to hold a successful meeting in Singapore, and
that meeting in Singapore is the best option for IETF 100.  This statement
was based on several factors, including evaluation of the site based on the
requirements and process now being updated and tracked in
draft-baker-mtgvenue-iaoc-venue-selection-process-02.  In particular, this
included consulting with the additional information sources identified in
the document (specialty travel services, etc), and no specific issues were
identified as to actual situation in Singapore.  More detail on the
information we have to hand is provided below.

Additional arguments have come forward since our earlier messages,  which
leads us to continue exploring.  The IETF Chair has been in touch with the
meeting host, which is obviously another factor in whether we can/should
move.   But we need to make a decision, so this message contains such
information as we have at present.  We understand that it is difficult to
express a view about what to do in the absence of known alternatives; but
we do not know what the alternatives are now, and we need urgently to make
a decision, so we are sharing the incomplete information we have in the
interests of transparency.


Laying this out in a pro/con format:


Not Singapore:
--------------

If we cancel the contract we have for Singapore for IETF 100, the onward
positive impacts include:

        . We might have the opportunity to establish the meeting in a
venue that permits more IETF participants to be comfortable being present
and engaging in a celebration of this milestone meeting, which is important
to some.



If we cancel the contract we have for Singapore for IETF 100, the onward
negative impacts include:

        . Losing approximately $80,000 (USD) hotel agreement cancellation
fee[1]

        . Losing up to approximately $150,000 (USD) in Singapore
government incentives [2]

        . Re-prioritizing people time to find a new location (the IAD,
Secretariat staff) who have full plates for lining up other future
meetings; there’s an unknown amount of impact in terms of how that impacts
*other* meetings (N.B.:  some of this effort is already underway to obtain
the information on possible alternatives and outline the pros/cons outlined
here).

        . Likelihood of IETF 100 in Asia is very small — we have few
prospects and it takes us months to get all the pieces aligned to get to a
signed contract in Asia (Singapore took over a year).  This would create
additional challenges for our Asian community members (travel distance,
visas).

        . Possible shift of dates — to be able to find a venue elsewhere
that works

We have some wiggle room in the point about time to find a new venue
insofar as it would be easiest to use a North American site that we have
used before.   If we have to consider non-North American, and/or new venues
where a site visit is needed, effort and cost will be higher.

Note, we should only cancel the Singapore contract once we know that an
alternative venue, that is acceptable to community, is ready to put under
contract.   The cost of cancellation ($80k now) goes up to $192k if we
don’t cancel before November 2016 (i.e., a few months from now).


We do have to give the hotel a reason for canceling our contract:

Reasons for Cancellation of IETF 100 Meeting in Singapore, and the IAOC
understands that to be:

“    Singapore laws against same-sex relationships between men and
    preventing the recognition of same-sex marriages could create
    difficulties for same-sex partners and their children; these have
    discouraged affected members of our community from participating
    at the IETF meeting in November of 2017 and have also influenced
    others to decline to attend in principled solidarity with them.


    Accordingly, the IETF has decided to postpone indefinitely the meeting
    in Singapore and is pursuing alternative venues.”



If we stick with Singapore for IETF 100:
----------------------------------------

If we keep the contract we have for Singapore for IETF 100, the onward
positive impacts include:

        . we have a functional meeting venue set for our 3rd meeting of
2017

        . meeting site research resources can remain focused on filling in
the remaining gaps in the 3-4 year timeframe

        . we don’t have the financial hit of the cancellation fee, and
possible loss of government incentives

If we keep the contract we have for Singapore for IETF 100, the onward
negative impacts include:

        . we have a meeting at a location where some community members
will perceive themselves as unwelcome and unsafe, unable to bring family

        . possibly fewer attendees than we might otherwise expect — which
is a consideration for both getting work done and financial reasons
(registration fees per person)







The above is the practical information as we can best scope it.


If you would like to provide some considered feedback on this matter,
please feel free to send it to venue-selection(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org .  Please 
note
that mailing list is a PUBLICLY archived “drop box” [3].


Leslie Daigle, for the IAOC.


[1] The cancellation fee can be recovered if it is used as a deposit at a
later meeting with those hotels in Singapore, if it is before 2020; for
this discussion, it’s perhaps best to consider it gone.

[2] Government business incentives are not unusual; we might obtain these
in another country hosting IETF 100, but we are late to be expecting
incentives and opportunities for good deals, and are unlikely to get this
in a North America venue.

[3] The venue-selection mailing list is not open for subscription, and it
is not intended to archive dynamic conversations (i.e., don’t cc it on an
e-mail discussion thread, because there will be too many addressees and
your mail won’t go through).

--

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Leslie Daigle
Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises LLC
ldaigle(_at_)thinkingcat(_dot_)com
-------------------------------------------------------------------