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Re: [Nmh-workers] Stanford disliking my emails -- update + question

2015-04-24 22:09:29
Thanks for performing this experiment, Andy!

I received 2 copies.  The header for the first one that reached
GMail showed that it was the one sent to your local alias:

     [...]
     Received: from edoras.bradfordfamily.org (edoras.bradfordfamily.org. 
[166.70.45.18])
             by mx.google.com with SMTP id 
p5si19505403par.19.2015.04.24.16.31.00
             for <dnc2dnc(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com>;
             Fri, 24 Apr 2015 16:31:01 -0700 (PDT)
     [...]
     Received: (qmail 3883 invoked by uid 1000); 24 Apr 2015 23:30:59 -0000
     Delivered-To: amb-bradfordsorg-dnc2dnc(_at_)bradfords(_dot_)org
     Received: (qmail 25654 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2015 23:30:59 -0000
     [...]

The header from the second one shows that it was delivered directly
to my GMail account, and didn't go via the mailing list:

     [...]
     Delivered-To: dnc2dnc(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com
     Received: from edoras.bradfordfamily.org (edoras.bradfordfamily.org. 
[166.70.45.18])
             by mx.google.com with SMTP id 
zb14si19432603pac.209.2015.04.24.16.31.00
             for <dnc2dnc(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com>;
             Fri, 24 Apr 2015 16:31:01 -0700 (PDT)
     Received: (qmail 3579 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2015 23:30:59 -0000
     [...]

My Spam folder is empty (and never saw any email).

I also really dislike this behavior, where MLMs do not send a
copy if a member is explicitly specified as a recipient in the
header -- for all the reasons cited.  I too think it's wrong.

                                Bob

P.S.  Sorry to poke a fire that's out, but I really like Andy's
left-and-right-justified text.  (It helps that there aren't any
really "space"-y lines.  B-)  That's because I often play a
similar game with myself, trying to compose my message using
words and phrases that allow the right margin to line up.  B-)

From:     "Andy Bradford" 
<amb-sendok-1432510258(_dot_)jdamphnjncikciijjpkl(_at_)bradfords(_dot_)org>
To:       "Bob Carragher" <dnc2dnc(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com>
Date:     24 Apr 2015 17:30:58 -0600
Subject:  Re: [Nmh-workers] Stanford disliking my emails -- update + question
Cc:       nmh-workers(_at_)nongnu(_dot_)org, "Bob Carragher" 
<dnc2dnc(_at_)bradfords(_dot_)org>

Thus said Bob Carragher on Fri, 24 Apr 2015 15:46:15 -0700:

Is it really GMail that's doing this?

I recall experimenting  with Gmail many years ago and  at the time, they
did  ``duplicate  removal''  based  on perhaps  the  Message-ID.  As  an
experiment, I have added a local alias here which forwards to your Gmail
account and which is not subscribed to  the list server. You may have to
check your Spam folder for it, but will  you let me know if you get 1, 2
or 3  copies? If  you get  just one,  then this  confirms that  Gmail is
removing duplicates (as  I suspect it has been doing  for years, and for
which reason  I stopped using Gmail).  If you get 2,  the headers should
reveal  which route  those 2  messages took  and if  they are  both from
non-MLM deliveries, then the mailing list  is deciding not to send you a
message.

I actually believe  this behavior is wrong in an  MLM---how does it know
that the  message was delivered successfully?  In your case, it  took 33
hours for  you to get the  message, however, had the  MLM just performed
the basic forwarding service it should have been designed to do, you may
have actually received it much more quicker; sure, you may have received
2 copies, but I  think that's a better experience than  a 33 hour single
delivery.

Or  is  it the  list  server,  seeing that  one  of  the list's  email
addresses is in the header, deciding not to send a (duplicate) copy to
it?

Some MLMs do this, I'm not sure if  this one does, but we may be able to
find out with the little experiment above.

Thanks,

Andy
-- 
TAI64 timestamp: 40000000553ad255

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