----- Original Message -----
From: "william(at)elan.net" <william(_at_)elan(_dot_)net>
To: <spf-discuss(_at_)v2(_dot_)listbox(_dot_)com>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 5:02 PM
Subject: [spf-discuss] Re: List of nominations for people to sit on the "SPF
Leadership Council"
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004, Frank Ellermann wrote:
Okay, I can see 2 (max. 4) of my 5 votes in this list.
At least one more please:
Not unless John stops making decisions for everybody (such as that
council will sit for one year or that only those who have posted in
last 30 days can vote, etc). This is NOT how democracy works and
he just does not understandard (either did not read enough about
it or no experience within small groups for organizing it). The result
will be a failure for this initiative.
For what its worth I've been trying hard to correct his good intentions so
that something can really happen i.e. see organization poll questions of:
http://archives.listbox.com/spf-discuss(_at_)v2(_dot_)listbox(_dot_)com/200410/0860.html
and compare it to his original:
http://archives.listbox.com/spf-discuss(_at_)v2(_dot_)listbox(_dot_)com/200410/0854.html
The "rules of order" do exist for organizing the group and he's not
following those in correct way. The rules of order MUST also exist
for any organization if it wants to be seen as legitimate and these
rules foremost must exist exist for its leadership.
This process has been outlined for some time now, and I have incorporated
various ideas from constructive criticism I have had. I am not running a
"perfectly democratic" procedure here, anyone can see that. What is
happening is that a small body will be elected in a reaonable time and in a
"reasonably democratic" fashion by the majority of the people who are active
on the spf-discuss list, from a list of nominations which has been
successful in attracting a good number of names.
All the beaurocratic suggestions for procedures, voting methods, etc, etc,
will drag the agony out over more months than we can afford. To establish a
"perfectly democratic" election system has challenged major governments all
over the world, and they have *ALL* failed miserably. If you think you can
do better - write to George Bush ;-)
Meantime we have the opportunity to do this now, and allow the newly elected
council to create the environment for SPF to restart and finish off the work
that needs to be done. If we continue to chase our tails, looking for a
system which will satisfy everyone on this list - we will still be arguing
while other protocols take over where SPF left off.
I am pefectly happy to answer any questions about, or constructive
criticisms of the procedure we are following.
I am *not* happy with any attempts by one or two individuals to derail what
is now a fairly fast moving train. Any such action would be seen as against
the best interests of SPF.
William - Please join in and enjoy the ride - the results will be a good
reflection of what people want. It has worked for other groups with far
greater problems than this.
If things do no change with how John is conducting himself and his
calls for SPF Leadership council, then I'll ask people not to
participate and not to vote and not to follow it.
Please don't become a wrecker William - we have enough bad-mouthing on the
list. If you have specific points that you would like to see incorporated
in what is already happening I will happily do so, if they are reaonable,
don't delay the process, and have some support from others.
Slainte,
JohnP.
johnp(_at_)idimo(_dot_)com
ICQ 313355492