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Wayne Schlitt wrote:
I'm sorry Julian, but I think you are over reacting and over reaching
here. This is a bullet point on a slide. Microsoft is not claiming
to have authored SIDF. The point of that presentation is that you
need both good mechanics *and* people willing to use those systems.
I know what the point of the slide is. But that is not the point. I have
deliberately gone off on a tangent, that's why I changed the subject.
Really, SPF is heavily based on DMP and RMX and both of those were
likely re-inventions of and/or based on earlier work. When we go
around and say "SPF" we don't say "SPF, which is a derivative work of
DMP, RMX and many other systems, yada yada yada".
Oh, but we do:
http://www.google.com/search?lr=lang_en&q=site%3Aopenspf.org+rmx%7Cdmp+danisch%7Cfecyk
(Compare that to this one if you care:
http://www.google.com/search?lr=lang_en&q=site%3Amicrosoft.com+rmx%7Cdmp%7Cspf+danisch%7Cfecyk%7Cwong
)
It's like saying Kerberos was invented by Microsoft.
No, it is not.
Saying "SIDF" and meaning "SPF and Microsoft's additions" is just like
saying "Microsoft Kerberos" and meaning "Kerberos and Microsoft's
additions". It is strongly misleading to the uninitiated.
I admit I did not research who created these slides -- mea culpa for
that. But it is pretty evident that they were strongly influenced by
Microsoft's "SIDF" propaganda, otherwise this misappropriation
couldn't have happened. (Nowhere in their PR is MS making a point of
SID NOT being original works.)
ya know, I just checked the MS senderid website, and most of the
places MS just says they are "championing Sender ID" or similar
things. I can't find any place that they make any claim they, alone,
invented it. They *can* take credit for the PRA, and thus take
partial credit for SIDF.
I expected this reaction and that's why I had checked their site, too (once
again). I did not say they were claiming to have invented it. What I
said was they were trying hard to avoid saying they have NOT invented it.
"championing" and the such is typical marketing slang that makes the unwary
jump to unwarranted conclusions while strictly avoiding outright lies.
Now show me where they give credit to Meng, Danisch, Fecyk or any other
non-MS contributors, except in the specs themselves (as demanded by the
IETF) and in their very early press releases from during MARID (when it
obviously was _them_ who had to gain from associating with Meng's SPF).
Please show me!
In that same conference, both the PRA and 2821.MAILFROM checks were
promoted.
This rant of mine is NOT about PRA vs. MAILFROM or the "v=spf1" abuse.
It's not even about Meng's cooperation with them (which I respect, even
though I did not approve of it at the time).
Despite not having researched the origin of said presentation, I did
not make my accusation lightly and I am still standing behind it.
"Not making a point of SID being derivative works"
and
"not making a point of SID being derivative works _despite_
observing people misappropriating it to MS"
are two different things. [...]
Yeah, except you didn't say either of things.
Given that MS have actively or passively influenced these slides and other
material and the press, and does NIL to correct the wrong image created by
that, yes, I did:
| [...] saying "authors of SIDF" disregards all the contributions of the
| SPF community! Compare RFC 4406, section 8, to RFC 4408, section 11.
| The _least_ they would have to do is say "authors of SIDF and SPF".
Don't tell me MS isn't aware of what's going on.
You accused Microsoft of plagiarism
Yes I did, and I uphold that claim.
and called [them] gnomes.
That is out of line.
Perhaps. Sue me for the "gnomes".
And, no, I'm NOT going to sue anybody over plagiarism (I have more impor-
tant things to do). I just want it to be known that that's what it is.
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